vendredi 5 août 2011

Credit scoring


La crise financière mondiale une fois encore montre bien combien était (est encore) valide la thèse de Marx relative aux contradictions internes du capitalisme. Là où il s'est trompé c'est en croyant que les conséquences de ces contradictions finiraient par emporter le système.


Non, l'idéologie capitaliste se régénère à chaque crise pour continuer son expansion incontrôlée après quelques années.

La solution pour sortir des crises? Faire payer les masses pour financer les pertes engendrées par les conséquences des dites contradictions, les pertes n'étant évidemment jamais supportées par ceux qui en sont responsables. Et les masses continuent de voter pour ceux qui les exploitent, les mandants de l'idéologie de l'exploitation... Mais c'est une autre question.

Les Grecs depuis l'an dernier découvrent que vivre à crédit c'est super sauf quand il faut régler la note. Donc il y a plan drastique d'austérité et les Grecs manifestent et font gréve.

Les agences de notation font leur boulot (biaisé ou pas, il y a une dette qu'il faut bien rembourser) et je ne crois pas plus que cela au complot spéculatif des agences, même s'il y a bien sûr à la marge les habituels profiteurs, les mêmes qui font du marché noir à toute petite échelle en temps de guerre.  

L'UE bien sûr est très largement responsable mais les Grecs eux-mêmes ne sont pas les innocentes victimes d'une système qui les dépasse. It takes two to tango, le prêteur et l'emprunteur.

Personne ne conteste que la Grèce a trafiqué toutes les statistiques qu'il était possible de trafiquer pour obtenir son adhésion à l'U.E et les milliards de subvention qui vont avec. Et même s'il y a eu comme il est accoutumé ce qu'on peut imaginer de détournements, il n'empêche que le pays a pu se moderniser en se dotant des infrastructures qui lui faisaient défaut, en accroissant le nombre d'hôpitaux par exemple ou en améliorant la qualité des réseaux routier et ferroviaire. L'ensemble des Grecs en a bénéficié.

Tous les manifestants à Athènes ou dans les autres villes de Grèce se sont-ils toujours acquittés de leurs impôts? Quel est le nombre de Mercedes 600 S par habitant en Grèce par rapport aux Français ou aux Polonais par exemple ou par rapport au PIB par habitant?

Grâce aux subventions et aux investissements externes faits en Grèce, le pays a pu vivre à crédit et ses habitants bénéficier - aussi bien globalement qu'à titre individuel - de la manne des subventions européennes, financées elle-mêmes par les contribuables européens.

Même les petits fonctionnaires qui croient être victimes ne l'étaient pas tant que cela quand l'État les employait à ne rien faire avec des salaires payés par les voisins européens. Je comprends que les Allemands l'ait mauvaise, et moi aussi parce que le résultat sur les marchés de l'impéritie des Grecs m'affecte personnellement.

Les Grecs ne sont pas individuellement directement et personnellement responsables de ce qui leur arrive, ils n'en sont pas non plus les innocentes victimes comme l'ont été les Amérindiens qui ont vu les Européens leur fondre dessus et les exterminer il y a 5 siècles.
 
Me font pas pleurer les Grecs! A propos, où sont planqués les avoirs des multimillionnaires grecs? Indice : Suisse, Liechtenstein etc.

45 commentaires:

Flocon a dit…

Ned,

J'ai répondu (avec retard) à ton dernier commentaire sur "Pipeau" mais il est un peu loin sur la page à présent that's why I mention it here.

Rocket a dit…

"ils n'en sont pas non plus les innocentes victimes comme l'ont été les Amérindiens qui ont vu les Européens leur fondre dessus et les exterminer il y a 5 siècles."


I recently came across a French historian named Claude Ribbe. In fact he wrote a very interesting book about a subject that I have always considered to be tabou in France (given that Napoleon is buried in the middle of town under a grandiose monument) and that is the genocide and crimes against humanity of Napoleon and how he in fact he played a significant influence on Adolph Hitler. Hitler visited his tomb while in Paris. I quote from the following link

http://www.claude-ribbe.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=11&Itemid=66

"Cent quarante ans avant la Shoah, Napoléon a utilisé les gaz pour exterminer la population civile des Antilles. Il a livré vivants des milliers d’Antillais en pâture à des chiens. Napoléon a créé des camps de concentration en Corse et à l’île d’Elbe où son morts des milliers de Français d’Outre-mer."

"Il a fait vendre d’anciens soldats de la République enchaînés au fond des cales. Il a rétabli la traite négrière que la Révolution avait abolie, provoquant la mise en esclavage dans les colonies françaises d’au moins deux cent mille Africains et la mort d’un million d’autres."

Also this link is very interesting

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1038453/The-French-Fuhrer-Genocidal-Napoleon-barbaric-Hitler-historian-claims.html

It is well known that during the Russian campagne Napoleon left for Russia with half a million men and return to France with 25,000.

So my top 3 list for European murderers reads as follow

1. Hitler
2. Napoleon
2. Stalin

Flocon a dit…

Bon, alors pour résumer, Napoléon = Hitler comme en témoigne le classement final. Et si Napoléon avait eu les moyens techniques dont a pu disposer Hitler il serait très largement en tête du classement mondial des criminels de guerre, des criminels contre l'humanité etc.

En plus si le Daily Mail est de la partie c'est une garantie d'historicisme scientifique! :-))

The funnny part is that I don't feel guilty in the least because Napoleon left his Grande Armée behind him, something that nobody denies and that isn't taboo either.

Ce qui est d'ailleurs très intéressant c'est de constater la véritable obsession des Anglais vis à vis de Napoléon alors que celui-ci ne fait pas vraiment partie des préoccupations quotidiennes des Français.

But well, that keeps the English busy with the French. O well... never mind...

Par ailleurs la thèse de Claude Ribbe manque quelque peu d'appuis factuels et hormis lui (c'était son but) aucun historien n'a jamais avancé ce qu'il avance.

Il y a quelque 20 ans ou plus, un universitaire américain noir avait soutenu que les pyramides d'Égypte avaient en fait été érigées par une civilisation noire.

J'ai trouvé ce site, et cette vidéo par un Anglais. Il y en bcp d'autres.

Je n'en sais rien mais cela ressemble fortement à des sites révisionnistes.

Here's another one.

Merci du commentaire anyway, en ce moment je suis incapable de mettre en forme des billets acceptables.

D'ailleurs la crise grecque et Napoléon ne sont pas tellement étrangers l'un à l'autre puisque la Grèce antique s'est nourrie de l'ancienne Égypte (je crois tout de même que Platon était grec) et qu'on en est arrivé à parler de ça via Napoléon et les Antilles.

Il est vrai que le dernier paragraphe du billet laissait une porte d'entrée ouverte...

Rocket a dit…

"The funnny part is that I don't feel guilty in the least because Napoleon left his Grande Armée behind him, something that nobody denies and that isn't taboo either."

You shouldn't feel guilty because it wasn't you.

I simply regret that objectively the life of Napoleon may not have been completely dissected because he is an example of a once powerful France and people tend to be nostalgic.


However I don't think this is an English - French thing as the ball got rolling because of a book that a French historian wrote. It was simply reported in the foreign press.

I do understand that any criticism of Napoleon does touch a sore nerve in France.

"aucun historien n'a jamais avancé ce qu'il avance."

Does the word and testimony of Carribean Blacks count or were they just ignored.

Of course not. That would be to attack an "icon" Ca ne se fait pas en france. Just as no one dared to attack French politicians on sexual harassment until recently and only thanks to the go ahead emanating from charges brought about against Mr. Strauss Kahn.

You know as well as I do what is permissible to say and what is not.

Even at one time a French Minister (Nadine Morano) filed a complaint (which she later pulled after realizing how ridiculous she was) against a blogger who write " Oh la menteuse" when referring to said Minister.

I maintain my ratings

Flocon a dit…

I agree with everything that you write and I even go further re Nadine Morano.

For all intents and purposes she was ridicule and exposed for eveyone to see what the UMP party is up to.

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"I maintain my ratings"

I think you're being too soft on Bonny. Considering Hitler took his inspiration on him and bowed in front of his grave, the litle Corsican should head your list.

Anijo a dit…

I think you're being too soft on Bonny. Considering Hitler took his inspiration on him and bowed in front of his grave, the litle Corsican should head your list.



Bonny Bunch of Roses

The sentiment is pro-Napoleon, which would indicate an Irish origin.

I wish I could have found the version of Bonny Bunch of Roses by Fairport Convention. Flocon, are you familiar with this song by Fairport Convention (Sandy Denny)?

Anijo a dit…

The song "Who knows where the time goes" was made popular by this beautiful songstress. I prefer the Sandy Denny version, but they're both good.

Flocon a dit…

Anijo, you've provided a collector for Rocket with your link to Bonny Bunch of Roses.

No, I didn't know these songs and I didn't even know this Sandy Denny. What a tragic fate!

Fairport Convention I knew from my college years, and judging from their name I thought they were American. Well they were not...

Some months ago Ned gave a link to a video and I think it was Judy Collins but I'm not sure. But I remember she wrote she was a beautiful woman.

She has a crystal clear voice anyway.

-------

re the Irish and the French you might be interested with this episode.

And I though Bill O' Reilly was of Irish descent...

Flocon a dit…

Rocket may be interested also with this page dealing with Napoleon and the Jews.

Hitler certainly found his inspiration in Napoleon but he may have missed some lessons though...

Anijo a dit…

She has a crystal clear voice

Ah, yes, ahhhh...

Who knows where the time goes? Where are we but here and now?

Anijo a dit…

Anijo, you've provided a collector for Rocket with your link to Bonny Bunch of Roses.

☺ Indeed ☺

Ned Ludd a dit…

Bengal Famine

The British are poorly placed to criticize Napoleon. During WWII they were responsible for a famine causing 2 to 3 million deaths in Bengal.

Not only that, but "During the British rule in India there were approximately 25 major famines spread through states such as Tamil Nadu in South India, Bihar in the north, and Bengal in the east; altogether, between 30 and 40 million Indians were the victims of famines in the latter half of the 19th century (Bhatia 1985)."

There hasn't been a famine in India since independence.

Another action by the British was the salt tax, Salt Tax

They even constructed a wall a couple of thousand miles long to enforce it.

"In the early 19th century, to make the salt tax more profitable and stop the smuggling, the East India Company established customs check points throughout Bengal. One Mr. G.H.Smith established a "Customs Line". This was the boundary across which transportation was salt involved payment of high customs duties. In the 1840s, a thorn fence was erected along with western frontiers of Bengal province to prevent smuggling of salt. Eventually, after 1857, the thorn fence grew to be 2,500 miles long all along India's eastern frontier and Orissa.
“ A customs line was established, which stretched across the whole of India, which in 1869 extended from the Indus to the Mahanadi in Madras, a distance of 2,300 miles; and it was guarded by nearly 12,000 men and petty officers... it consisted principally of an immense impenetrable hedge of thorny trees and bushes, supplemented by stone wall and ditches, across which no human being or beast of burden or vehicle could pass without being subject to detention or search ”

Flocon a dit…

Merci pour les liens Ned, I had no idea. I just knew about the famine in Ireland which led half of the population to immigrate to the U.S.

Anijo a dit…

Flocon,
Sorry that this has become a thread about Napolean. I was curious about this Claude Ribbe guy and did some searching. I found that serious historians have no respect at all for the book that he wrote re Bonny.

And as Bonny himself said:
"Qu'est ce que l'histoire, sinon une fable sur laquelle tout le monde est d'accord."

Anyway, I thought that you might find this podcast interesting.

Today we focus on the claims that Napoleon directly ordered atrocities to be committed in Haiti.

Did Napoleon, as Claude Ribbe claims, invent the gas chamber? (We find no evidence for that.)


A comment from one of the listeners of podcast:
Through my personal research into the primary sources, I discredited the work, but I’m glad to have your show denounce it as well. Hopefully, this will help limit the terrible power of these heinous accusations.

Rocket a dit…

Ned.

"The British are poorly placed to criticize Napoleon."

You're missing the bigger picture. This article from the Guardian is a reprint. I repeat (large sigh)the individual who wrote this book was FRENCH.

Anjo

"I was curious about this Claude Ribbe guy and did some searching. I found that serious historians have no respect at all for the book that he wrote re Bonny."

Yes and in three hours you found the answer as to who a serious historian is.

References please or should I just take your word for it.

And the French didn't sink Greenpeace nor did the Chernobyl cloud arrive in France, nor did the French government in place do the Nazis dirty work concerning the deportation nor did they torture in Algeria and Robert Boulin committed suicide by drowning in one foot 7 inches of water and Air France 447 just fell out of the sky because of inept pilots. It has nothing to do with Airbus.

And last but not least. One of my all time favorites

Responsable mais pas coupable.

I'm not comparing nor saying one system is better nor comparing lies. If you look at history all of the above were either denied by French historians or successive French governments.

I'll also say one more thing. When the French governement speaks...people listen...or else.

this link by my favorite group of comedians in France says it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O3y2A7g7Qw

Anijo a dit…

References please or should I just take your word for it.

Listen to the podcast that I linked to above. Three aficionados of Napoleonic history (An Aussie and two Americans) discuss the claims made by Mr. Ribbe, who you would no doubt deride in the same manner that you deride Al Sharpton for similar unsubstantiated claims being made in a different context.

Flocon a dit…

"You're missing the bigger picture. This article from the Guardian is a reprint. I repeat (large sigh)the individual who wrote this book was FRENCH."

Although Ned won't waste her time answering your comment, please note that she didn't refer in the least to the article of the Daily Mail you linked to but more broadly to the history record of the Brits re how making people starve.

And since you're a serious historian you fairly know that Bonny didn't create concentration camps but some people accross the English Channel when they were trying to prevent the Boers to become independant.

---------------

"Yes and in three hours you found the answer as to who a serious historian is."

Irony and sarcasm won't help your case Rocket. But maybe you've found who a serious historian is. According to which standards?

And then the deluge arrives : Tchernobyl, Airbus 447, Robert Boulin, Algeria, the Nazis, Greenpeace et all :-))).

You forgot to mention the assassination of the Duc d'Enghien as well as Pouchkine being assassinated by a French officer

And this coming from someone who has dual citizenship and been living in France for the past 30 years if not more...

Flocon a dit…

Anijo,

"Sorry that this has become a thread about Napolean"

No problemo Anijo, any opportunity to exchange is to be acknowledged and appreciated as a pleasant moment to enjoy.

re Napoleon himself it's rather interesting to note how much Americans/Brits/Aussies etc. are interested with the character of Bonny (and Marie-Antoinette also).

On a side note, when I heard Mireille Matthieu sing the Marseillaise, I felt a sudden urge to discard my French nationality and ask for political asylum in the U.S !

Would SemperFidelis mind?

Anijo a dit…

Yes and in three hours you found the answer as to who a serious historian is.


And yet you have not spent even two hours in an attempt to find peer-reviewed articles vis-à-vis Napoleon Bonaparte nor have you spent even two hours in an attempts to understand or comprehend what a serious historian is. You simply dived in head first into supporting the opinions of a certain author's book, reviewed by the Daily Mail, because said opinions fit in to your own prejudices.

Anijo a dit…

I repeat (large sigh)the individual who wrote this book was FRENCH.

So, (large sigh) if an AMERICAN writes a book about the history of the United States and someone takes issue with the facts presented in said book, that indicates that the reason they take issue is because they miss "the bigger picture)

Is this the position that you take Rocket?

Anijo a dit…

On a side note, when I heard Mireille Matthieu sing the Marseillaise, I felt a sudden urge to discard my French nationality and ask for political asylum in the U.S !

lol As you know, I am not as critical of Ms Matthieu as you are. ;

Would SemperFidelis mind?

I would think not. SemperFi is interested in loyalty to the U.S.A. He does not concern himself with French patriotism.

Anijo a dit…

Rocket said?

I'm not comparing nor saying one system is better nor comparing lies. If you look at history all of the above were either denied by French historians or successive French governments.


And if you look at the history of the United States, historical atrocities are either denied by most Americans historians or successive American governments. I added "most" American historians assuming that you meant to say "denied by 'most' French historians or successive French governments. I added the adjective "most" in quoting you in an attempt to allow you the benefit of the doubt.

Anijo a dit…

And the French didn't sink Greenpeace nor did the Chernobyl cloud arrive in France, nor did the French government in place do the Nazis dirty work concerning the deportation nor did they torture in Algeria and Robert Boulin committed suicide by drowning in one foot 7 inches of water and Air France 447 just fell out of the sky because of inept pilots. It has nothing to do with Airbus.

And the majority of Americans don't feel that Green peace is a joke (including you), nor was there a core meltdown at Three Mile Island, nor did the American goverment in place do the dirty work of exterminating Native Americans, nor did GWB & Co. sanction torture of 'insurgents'in any country, by waterboarding or other methods. And then you suddenly switch over to inept pilots and Airbus. Quite a mouthful there. You clearly have strong angry feelings about the French and it must be cathartic to unload your suppressed feelings on Flocon's blog.

Although Ned won't waste her time answering your comment

Ya, it's Anijo who will waste her time responding to your canards.

Flocon a dit…

Ouch!

You shouldn't have meddled with Anijo Rocket. Lol!

ZapPow a dit…

Same old Rocket, I see. Gives you a warm feeling of stability in this ever changing world.

Flocon a dit…

Fair to say, Rocket provided some valuable information re the Perp walk and O.J. Simpson so as long a he behaves, he's welcome...

Rocket a dit…

Flocon

"And this coming from someone who has dual citizenship"

Let me be perfectly clear about one point so we don't "sombrer dans la commérage de bistrot"

If you are referring to me. I do not have dual nationality. I have American citizenship only.

"Fair to say, Rocket provided some valuable information re the Perp walk and O.J. Simpson so as long a he behaves, he's welcome..."

Thank you.

Anijo a dit…

Flocon,

On the podcast that I linked to above, one of the men discussing this topic is J. David Markham

J. David Markham (born 26 December 1945) is an award-winning educator, author and an internationally respected historian. He has been featured on programs on Napoleon Bonaparte and Julius Caesar on the History Channel International, the History Channel, the Military History Channel, the Learning Channel and the Discovery Channel. David is President of the International Napoleonic Society. David also serves as the resident historian for the Napoleon 101 podcast with Cameron Reilly.

Flocon a dit…

Anijo,

J. David Markham's French colleague is Jean Tulard.

And yet he's more interested in cinema than he is with Napo.

Ned Ludd a dit…

In 2008, it was the private banks that causesed the financial crisis. Today, it is a private corporation Standard and Poor's that is largely responsible. Why is it that private companies like S&P and Moody's have the power to establish the credit ratings of governments as well as private corporations? This power would and should be assured by a government institution. It seems obvious that this is among the sovereign perogatives of governments. In France, for instance, there is the Cour de comptes that studies government spending and publishes its results. S&P and Moody's should be prohibited from evaluating governments.

For that matter, I think that the stock markets around the world should be nationized and closely controled. Many practices should be outlawed.

As to Obama negotiating with the Republican controlled Congress, that was completely unneccessary. Ronald Reagan raised the the debt ceiling 17 times without consulting Congress. As representative Bernie Sanders said, Obama should have used the 4th article of the 14th Amendment to just do it. It reads in part,

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection and rebellion, shall not be questioned..."

Obama is a wimp. He should have made the decision and then let the Republicans attack it in the Supreme Court if they dared. Just a reminder for the Republicans, When Bush was president cutting taxes and increasing spending, Dick Cheney said on television about 10 years ago, "The debt doesn't matter."

Flocon a dit…

"I think that the stock markets around the world should be nationized and closely controled. Many practices should be outlawed."

I wonder if the stock market in China is as unbridled as are those in the "West" or if some practises are outlawed?

Remember when Chirac, Balladur and all during the Mitterrand/Jospin period would lament all over the media that Les socialistes ont ruiné la France, Les socialistes ont mis la France à genoux etc?

As regards la Cour des Comptes (an institution set up by Bonny as you know) I have no idea what percentage of its recommandations is actually implemented.

Flocon a dit…

Il y a ce tableau dans le Boston Globe.

L'article wiki sur la dette public est intéressant aussi.

(d'ailleurs c'est intéressant les finances publiques)

Anonyme a dit…

Ned:
//Why is it that private companies like S&P and Moody's have the power to establish the credit ratings of governments as well as private corporations? This power would and should be assured by a government institution. It seems obvious that this is among the sovereign perogatives of governments. In France, for instance, there is the Cour de comptes that studies government spending and publishes its results. S&P and Moody's should be prohibited from evaluating governments.//

Private agencies like S&P don't "establish the credit ratings" of any institution, sovereign state or private corporation. They merely offer advice about the risk of investing in the debt of the institution in question. We are all free to ignore the advice.

That is just what millions of people did this week. S&P advised on Friday that US debt was riskier that its lowest risk rating of AAA. On Monday, investors ignored S&P and took the action exactly opposite to S&P's advice. They were willing to pay MORE money for US debt and accept a LOWER interest rate. By Wednesday, the US Treasury had sold many millions of dollars of three-year bonds at the highest price ever since these bonds first went on the market in 2003. There were three times as many buyers as there were bonds on auction. The people are ignoring S&P and are more, not less, willing to buy US debt. The Greeks would give their collective right arm for such a result.

Speaking of the
Greeks, no one will prevent you from striking a personal blow at S&P and buying Greek debt against their advice. Likewise, you can kick S&P in the teeth and buy Italian and Spanish debt.

On the other hand, the system you propose is largely in place in China. There is a Government-controlled rating institution. And outside critics of Chinese institutional debt are censored out of publication in China. More on how that works in future.

SemperFidelis

Flocon a dit…

Sorry for the delay Semper... For whatever reason the spambox was angry last night...

Ned will read your comment next time she comes.

The breaking up of your text in 5 paragraphs isn't lost on everyone though. ;-)

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I kinda remember some months ago Angela Merkel calling for a European rating agency to be set up. The idea seems to have been left in the drawer now.

Rules of accounting are customarily intangible, that's their very raison d'être : to be reliable. Of course any accountant can play with the rules but, normalerweise, whatever the "nationality" of any rating agency, the astronomical amount of the Greek debt would have been perceived as such by X, Y or X agency.

Putting the blame on rating agencies is tantamount to putting the blame on the messenger for the content of the message.

Ned Ludd a dit…

S&P has become a reference for investors because the big players use it. What are the possible conflicts of interest of S&P and even criminal connivance with the big boys? What investigation is there into and who controls S&P's practices?

I don't know how S&P makes its money, but "Libération" has just written an article about it so I will have to read that. Let's say for the moment that I doubt the honesty and objectivity of S&P.

The American General Accounting Office(GAO)generally seems to do serious and honest work. Why not expand its role to evaluate the debts of the U.S. and even other countries?

As to recent investment, China and Japan virtually own the U.S. and they don't have an interest in seeing its financial system collapse.

Flocon a dit…

"The American General Accounting Office(GAO)generally seems to do serious and honest work."

Doesn't it compare with la Cour des Comptes, mutatis mutandis?

Flocon a dit…

"Let's say for the moment that I doubt the honesty and objectivity of S&P"

Doute légitime, cependant je ne crois pas que la raison d'être de ces boîtes soit de tromper délibérément ses clients. Qu'il y ait des boucaneers in their wake n'est guère contestable cependant and more regulation would be welcome.

Rocket a dit…

Ned

With all due respect.

"As to recent investment, China and Japan virtually own the U.S. and they don't have an interest in seeing its financial system collapse."


Where do you get these wild emotional driven declarations as to whom owns what

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/DC-Decoder/2011/0204/National-debt-Whom-does-the-US-owe

"Foreigners hold about 47 percent of US public debt. And yes, the largest foreign holder here is China – but only by a hair. Chinese investors are owed 9.8 percent of US debt. Next comes Japan, at 9.6 percent, and the United Kingdom, at 5.1 percent."

"So if anybody tells you that Americans work for China now, since they hold all our T-notes and can yank our fiscal chain, tell them that’s an exaggeration. The vast majority of US debt is owed to non-Chinese, after all."

http://www.aft.gouv.fr/article_467.html?id_article=467

Every country holds other countries debt and it seems that the French debt is in majority foreign held. Seems as if the percentage is over 65%

Who holds Greek debt or should I say who owns Greece.

French and German banks.

As for S and P.

Yields on T bills as Semper mentioned went down after the downgrade which in layman terms means the market was telling S and P that they still believed the US T bills were still the most dependable in the world.

Further your remarks

"Why is it that private companies like S&P and Moody's have the power to establish the credit ratings of governments as well as private corporations? This power would and should be assured by a government institution."

That would be like asking Air France to investigate it's crash of AF 447 or EDF to investigate a nuclear accident at one of it's plants. But maybe you don't understand where I'm coming from. A free market is not controlled by gov't institutions. It seems you would prefer a government controlled market.

Ned Ludd a dit…

"cependant je ne crois pas que la raison d'être de ces boîtes soit de tromper délibérément ses clients"

There is the futures market or "achat à découvert". A person can promise to sell a stock at a certain price promising to sell at a later date, say 100 dollars that he doesn't have and doesn't have to put out.

He expects, or hopes, that the stock goes down. If it does, he buys it low, say 80 dollars, and sells it at the price he promised, with a profit of 20 dollars.

Anyone at S&P who is aware of its plan to reduce the United States' credit rating can play the game with a certain confidence.

Ned Ludd a dit…

Also, S&P gave triple A ratings to financial plans and banks back in 2007-2008 and then the crisis hit. Hell, maybe S&P gave Bernie Madoff a triple A.

Flocon a dit…

Désolé Rocket that your comment landed in the spambox and stayed there for so long. Cela arrive très rarement and yet...

Comme je ne suis pas en mesure de suivre le blog on a daily basis je n'ai pu libérer le commentaire.

Eventually it has hit the light...

Flocon a dit…

Ned,

Pour les ventes à découvert j'ai appris il y a quelques jours que cette pratique est interdite en Allemagne depuis un an je crois alors que les Britanniques y sont absolument opposés (you bet!) et qu'il est question de lessuspendre pendant 15 jours en France.


Sont sérieux les Allemands and they mean business!

Rocket a dit…

No Problem Flocon.

Thanks for publishing it.

Ned Ludd a dit…

More on S&P. The Justice Department is investigating its practices starting before the crisis of 2008.

"During the boom years, S.& P. and other ratings agencies reaped record profits as they bestowed their highest ratings on bundles of troubled mortgage loans, which made the mortgages appear less risky and thus more valuable. They failed to anticipate the deterioration that would come in the housing market and devastate the financial system.

Since the crisis, the agencies’ business practices and models have been criticized from many corners, including in Congressional hearings and reports that have raised questions about whether independent analysis was corrupted by the drive for profits.

The Securities and Exchange Commission has also been investigating possible wrongdoing at S.& P., according to a person interviewed on that matter, and may be looking at the other two major agencies, Moody’s and Fitch Ratings."

NY Times

Ned Ludd a dit…

S&P continued:

"In particular, Professor Sylla said that the ratings agencies could be forced to stop making their money off the entities they rate and instead charge investors who use the ratings. The current business model, critics say, is riddled with conflicts of interest, since ratings agencies might make their grades more positive to please their customers.

Before the financial crisis, banks shopped around to make sure rating agencies would award favorable ratings before agreeing to work with them. These banks paid upward of $100,000 for ratings on mortgage bond deals, according to the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission, and several hundreds of thousands of dollars for the more complex structures known as collateralized debt obligations."