dimanche 16 janvier 2011

They can't be that dumb



Like everyone else since the 9/11 attacks I've heard this story of the 72 virgins awaiting Islamist terrorists in the paradise their religion has in store for them.  

So I wanted to know whether that was true or a totally fictitious reading of the Qur'an by western media.

After a few seconds I landed on WikiIslam which, I suppose, is as reliable as Wikipedia. A few more seconds and I found here what I was looking after.

Indeed it seems there's a passage in the Qur'an which alludes to the possibility of a reward for Muslims sacrificing their lives for the cause of Allah. The rest is all made of interpretations by Muslim commentators who also believe there are God given eternal truths.

WikiIslam isn't extolling about this issue; it simply does the job Wikipedia does: The articles are neutral and documented.

Here is another article by an American with a typical American sense of humor that I'm very fond of. He makes very good points and isn't at all specifically critical of Islam per se. Actually, for what I understand the guy is an atheist.

"nonfundamentalist Muslims don't take the cosmological parts of the Koran any more literally than nonfundamentalist Christians take the biblical story of Genesis"

"But don't be too quick to judge. Christianity, after all, invented the idea of paradise in the first place."

Now the point I wanted to make is that I find it hard to believe that Muslim suicide-bombers engage in terrorism just because of this tall story of 72 virgins they'll get as reward.

To so believe amounts to deliberately ignore the deep political and historical reasons why fundamentalist Islamists engage into the Jihad.

I don't think the 17 terrorists who committed the 9/11 attacks did so for the sole purpose of getting 72 hotties in their afterlife. And the same applies for the Iraqis or Afghans who blow themselves up when fighting what they rightly consider invaders and occupiers of their country.

No, these guys aren't that dumb although you can't exclude the possibility that one simpleton is. But even Zaccharia Moussaoui wasn't that stupid. He was brainwashed but for what we know he wasn't enrolled by al-Qaeda with the promise of getting 72 big breasted babes after he dies.

So if it appears that there's some truth in this 72 virgin story, I suspect there has been some manipulation of these readings of a tiny part of the Qur'an in order to downplay the real motivations of Islamist terrorists.

26 commentaires:

Anijo a dit…

Ah, qu'il est mignon le chien. Je crois que c'est un labrador retriever.

Flocon a dit…

Anijo,

My first idea was to use the Turkish bath but eventally I found a modernized version of the painting...

And as cute as the doggie may be, it won't be part of the post...

ZapPow a dit…

Tiens, je me creusais désespérément la cervelle pour essayer de retrouver quel était le tableau d'origine.

Pas d'accord avec Anijo : je trouve que le chien ne ressemble pas à un labrador, au vude la forme du museau, et encore moins des oreilles.

Flocon a dit…

ZapPow,

Je ne suis pas particulièrement versé en cynophilie mais le souvenir de ton jour de l'an 2009 je crois (les pavarotti canins) t'a probablement fait bien avancer dans la discipline...

Flocon a dit…

Here is another English speaking site related to our theme.

I haven't yet read the entire page (très désagréable à lire, plein écran, des fonds et des polices colorés...) but here's something that is similar to what I write in the post:

"First of all, this 70 virgin aspect that's been forwarded by some to gauge the reasons behind such actions by suicide attackers in the case of WTC attacks is as it stupid and idiotic as it sounds"

Ned Ludd a dit…

Pat Condell who makes many videos criticizing religions, makes a few good points in "The Trouble with Islam".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhN6CG1zCRc&feature=related

He notes that presumably heaven would be populated with good muslim girls who would have fathers and brothers who wouldn't take kindly to some male pig abusing them.

ZapPow a dit…

Like Renan and Einstein, I believe they can be that dumb.

I loved the video, Ned. Reason and humour, two of some of the best things in life (but, unfortunately, not efficient at all with the religious nutcases, unless you want to drive them mad).

By the way, the Koran doesn't promise 72 virgins, or 70. That's in the hadiths. When you look at the description of those eternal virgins in the hadiths, you may have some surprises. For example, there is one saying the girls are 27 meters high !

For what I have seen there are as many conceptions of paradise in Islam as in Christianity, one being that any muslim will have 72 eternal virgins (who never have periods, never pee, never shit, and some other nevers), and a perpetual erection. I just wonder why they didn't invent some hell where men would have the same incredibly desirable houris, and a perpetual impotence.

Anijo a dit…

Flocon,
Where did you locate the image that you used for this post?

Anijo a dit…

By the way, the Koran doesn't promise 72 virgins, or 70. That's in the hadiths

Cecil Adams says this in the Straight Dope website that Flocon linked to (the american with the sense of humor)

ZapPow a dit…

My bad ! I read too fast, and didn't even see the link.

Flocon a dit…

Anijo,

"Where did you locate the image that you used for this post?"

I started looking for "the Turkish bath" (in English) and then I switched to French and you'll find the picture down the first Google page.

I also did a research with "72 virgins" and I found that one which I rejected since Shall We Talk is a blog for decent and honorable participants.

Flocon a dit…

ZapPow,

"Like Renan and Einstein, I believe they can be that dumb."

Il est bien possible qu'il y en ait un mais je ne crois pas que les gars du 11 sept. et les autres aient été motivés par ces conneries, ignorées d'une très grande majorité de Musulmans je pense.

Il leur faudrait avoir lu le Coran (combien l'ont-ils fait d'ailleurs?) et les Hadith. Même question.

Ned nous a déjà donné un lien vers Pat Condell qui a son article dans Wiki (plus développé en anglais bien sûr).

--------

Imagine que Marine Le Pen dise le 10ème (minimum) de ce que dit Condell!

--> Tribunal correctionnel direct et condamnation assurée, condamnation de Besancenot à Estrosi lui-même, éventuelles émeutes dans certains quartiers "chauds" et des éditoriaux pendant 15 jours invoquant le retour de la bête immonde dans tous les medias. Sans compter bien sûr les menaces de mort à la Redecker ou la Rushdie.

La liberté d'expression est très mal barrée en France à présent, de Zemmour à Dieudonné. Ce qui est d'ailleurs assez cocasse connaissant les origines de l'un et de l'autre. Comme quoi le PC est multidimensionnel, haïssable et foncièrement réactionnaire (puisque contre la liberté d''expression).

ZapPow a dit…

En fait, j'aurais du dire que je ne doutais pas qu'il y ait des gens aussi stupides, car, comme toi, je doute fort que les terroristes du 11 septembre, et de nombreux autres, croient à cette ânerie.

Anonyme a dit…

The motif of the 72 Virgins figures in a clear example of the dark humor and euphemism soldiers use to shield themselves from the painful experience of combat. A Marine who just returned from Afghanistan tells me that the current slang for killing is "to introduce to the virgins". As in: "We crossed the road under fire and took cover against the wall. Smith threw a grenade through the window. Five Taliban ran out the door. We introduced them to the virgins."
SemperFidelis

Flocon a dit…

ZapPow,

Les Hadith étant comme autant d'élucubrations masculines à propos des élucubrations d'un illuminé nommé Mahomet, on se représente sans peine toutes les projections des fantasmes sexuels des gars qui se livraient à ce genre d'exégèse.

L'Islam attend encore son Spinoza parce que là, ils sont encore dans le royaume des Mille et une nuits...

D'ailleurs, si la comparaison m'est venue à l'esprit c'est bien parce que la nuit est l'image de l'obscurantisme, de l'ignorance et de la déréliction.

Flocon a dit…

SemperFidelis,

There may be more American soldiers than Muslims who eventually believe in this 72 virgin tall story.

Anonyme a dit…

Flocon: But many more Taliban will discover the real truth of the matter.
SemperFidelis

Flocon a dit…

SemperFidelis,

Are you so sure of that?

I nurture some doubts yet...

Three Americans seem to already have met a quartet of gorgeous Muslim babes...

And they still wear the sartorial dress they needed in order to meet the virgins...

Anijo a dit…

Flocon,
Aren't those handsome men the astronauts from Apollo I?

Flocon a dit…

"Aren't those handsome men the astronauts from Apollo 1?"

Indeed they are. I didn't chose the picture on purpose, it's just that I found it on Google images.

I've done the research and I've found where the picture comes from.

It's here and I have no idea what it is.

I guess someone (or even somebody!) had the 72 virgin thingie in his/her mind and did the photoshop montage.

Since it's the black humor SemperFidelis seems to be fond of, he may then appreciate the picture.

What a coincidence that via the 72 virgin myth both Muslims and non Muslims arrive in Heaven to be welcome by the same hostesses?

Personnaly, I don't enjoy black humor that much anyway...

Ned Ludd a dit…

Hitchens talks about the bullshit of the Hadith, reading from his book.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&feature=related&v=O5R_-0UO4fs

As to censorship in France, Rue 89 has an interesting article. In this case not censorship by the government, but by the Crif.

http://www.rue89.com/passage-benbassa/2011/01/15/israel-palestine-le-crif-bafoue-la-liberte-dexpression-et-sen-vante-1857

"Israel-Palestine: le Crif bafoue la liberté d'expression and s'en vante".

I don't like Zemmour and am rather neutral on Dieudonné, but both of them should have freedom of speech.

Flocon a dit…

J'ai vu cette info concernant le CRIF et Hessel dans Libé et les autres medias.

Le CRIF est beaucoup plus qu'une simple association de défense des intérêts de la communauté juive, c'est devenu le grand ordonnateur de la bien-pensance en France et on peut s'inquiéter qu'il ne finisse par prendre les commandes de la politique étrangère française comme il l'a fait aux E.U.

Bientôt ce sera Zemmour qui sera attaqué pour antisémitisme!

I know you don't like Zemmour, moi je l'aime bien, et j'ai écrit trois billets sur Dieudonné.

If someone is denied freedom of speech it has to be Dieudonné, courtesy la Licra, le CRIF et al.

Flocon a dit…

Si quelqu'un passe sur cet ancien billet (15 jours déjà), le tableau de Ingres à l'origine de ce photo-montage se trouve reproduit au fond en médaillon/miroir à la façon de Van Eyck ou Velasquez.

Anijo a dit…

le tableau de Ingres à l'origine de ce photo-montage se trouve reproduit au fond en médaillon/miroir

Je ne l'avais pas remarqué!

This has to with selective awareness

Anijo a dit…

This has to with

*This has to do with

Flocon a dit…

Anijo,

No, I didn't notice the moonwalking bear...

Selective awareness is the basic trick all conjurors use profusely: It always works so magnificently!