mardi 30 novembre 2010

Le rire est le propre de l'homme











Cette célèbre citation de Rabelais nous rappelle cette opposition humanité/animalité dont il était question dans le dernier billet.

Les animaux en effet ne rient pas -même s'ils peuvent jouer- puisque la possibilité du rire est une conséquence de l'existence de notre raison.

Avant Bergson (qui l'a éhontément plagié) Schopenhauer avait définit le mécanisme du rire comme une distorsion entre les concepts figés (rationnels donc) et la perception intuitive du réel mouvant.

Le rire est l'expression physique de cette inadéquation. D'un point de vue rationnel, on peut considérer en toute logique que l'humour est une expression mensongère du réel puisqu'il prend appui sur celui-ci afin de le transformer en lui ôtant précisément ce qui en est l'essence à savoir la perception commune que nous en avons.

Les animaux mâles dans les rituels de séduction dansent, font étalage de leurs parures, de leurs chants, de leur force, de leur bravoure etc. pour obtenir de la femelle qu'elle consente à l'accouplement.

Les rites de séduction dans le monde animal n'ont d'autre finalité que l'accouplement obtenu par travestissement de la réalité (les mâles veulent impressionner en exagérant leur beauté, leur force, leur bravoure, etc.) c'est-à-dire par l'usage de la tromperie.

Les humains ont recours aux mêmes stratagèmes pour séduire mais d'autres exigences doivent être remplies. Being pretty is a plus, being intelligent, educated, articulate and sophisticated does help too and being wealthy isn't necessary counterproductive…

La supériorité des hommes sur les animaux en ce domaine -et c'est là que le rire est le propre de l'homme- se manifeste en ce que les hommes disposent d'une wmd particulièrement efficace qui s'appelle l'humour. 

For whatever reason, human females are generally largely sensitive to humour, human males know that and use profusely of that tool in order to seduce females.  Why is that?

Se pourrait-il que l'humour en tant qu'il est une forme de distorsion et mise à distance du réel permette cet oubli consenti et momentané de notre humanité ce qui autorise donc l'acceptation de notre animalité qui ne tend qu'à l'accouplement?

Toute entreprise de séduction est un mensonge assumé par l'un et accepté par l'autre qui ne vise qu'à mettre entre parenthèses la "dignité" de notre humanité pour nous livrer aux besoins de notre animalité (doing the dirty).

Diane Keaton se serait-elle donnée à W. Allen si celui-ci n'avait que ses avantages physiques à proposer?

31 commentaires:

Anijo a dit…

Laughter is Genetic

Children who are born blind and deaf still retain the ability to laugh. Even apes have a form of Œpant-pant-pant laughter

Tickled apes yield laughter clue
New research has given credence to the idea that laughter evolved in a common ancestor of the great apes and humans. Researchers tickled 22 young apes and three humans and acoustically analysed the laughing sounds that resulted. Though the vocalisations varied, the team found that the patterns of changes fit with evolutionary splits in the human and ape family tree

bonobo laughing

Anijo a dit…

This essay by Montaigne fits not only this essay of yours, Flocon, but it also seems to tie in with what you are discussing with SemperFi on why you didn't shed a tear.

Les peintres tiennent, que les mouvemens et plis du visage, qui servent au pleurer, servent aussi au rire : De vray, avant que l'un ou l'autre soyent achevez d'exprimer, regardez à la conduitte de la peinture, vous estes en doubte, vers lequel c'est qu'on va. Et l'extremité du rire se mesle aux larmes

Flocon a dit…

Merci Anijo d'avoir créé ce lien vers un extrait des Essais de Montaigne car je me suis rendu compte que la citation était en fait de Rabelais! J'avais le vieux doute ce matin et puis je suis passé outre (*) et je n'ai pas vérifié :-(

I too relied on my recollection and I was wrong.

En fait peu importe l'auteur qui aurait pu être Pascal ou Aristote chez qui Rabelais a trouvé l'idée. Le thème central du billet n'en est pas affecté.

Il faut distinguer je crois entre

1°) le rire qui est l'expression physique de la compréhension d'un trait d'humour et

2°) le rire qui n'est qu'un nervous giggling more akin to psysiologie than to any conscious response to a witty remark or a funny story.

Mais il n'est pas étonnant en effet que les singes puissent avoir des ébauches de ce que nous appelons rire puisqu'ils sont nos plus proches cousins.

(*) Je ne sais si tu as déjà rencontré l'expression Passer outre qui est très fréquente. It means "to not take into account".

Anijo a dit…

C'est bien Rabelais Flocon. C'est que cela me fait penser à Montaigne, c'est tout. He had this point of view which seems so similar to the theme of the topics you've been posting lately

Flocon, I really am not sure what you meant to get across with this post. You keep returning to this idea of "oubli consenti" and the notion that sexuality is returning to our animal. I'm still attempting to wrap my arms around all of this. It seems to me that all most of what we do is in one way or another related to our animal. We are, afterall, animals who became conscious of ourselves. It's as though the universe, through us, become conscious of itself..

Anijo a dit…

Oh, I meant to ask you to clarify for me the meaning of "oubli consenti"

Flocon a dit…

"Why don't we do it on the road?
No one will be watching us..." ad lb


And then I had this quote from the Jin Ping Mei and I thought I would try to make a post out of it.

It soon became clear that the issue was endless (human sexuality) and when I arrived to the point where I was addressing the issue of modesty (pudeur) I realised I was on the wrong track.

So I had to shorten what I already had written to a tiny bit of a post (doing the dirty).

La question de la pudeur est essentielle puisque c'est précisément cela qui nous empêche of doing it on the road puisque nous ne sommes pas que des animaux.

J'ai voulu comprendre quel était le processus par lequel les humains "oubliaient" qu'ils étaient plus que des animaux pour cependant satisfaire leurs besoins animaux.

J'ai proposais qu'il fallait se départir un moment (to get rid of) de ce qui nous fait humains c'est à dire "oublier" momentanément et volontairement notre humanité.

Le viol est non pas un oubli volontaire (consenti) mais une perte forcée de l'humanité de la victime.

Dans ce billet (le rire etc.) j'ai voulu comprendre pourquoi l'humour était un instrument de séduction. Parce qu'il nous présente une réalité déformée, l'humour nous permet d'oublier momentanément la réalité de notre humanité et nous permet ainsi d'assouvir nos besoins animaux car nous mettons en suspens notre humanité.

Maintenant c'est une proposition que je fais, chacun la lit comme il veut, l'accepte ou la rejette.

"It seems to me that all most of what we do is in one way or another related to our animal."

Definitively yes and yet, we don't do it on the road.

"It's as though the universe, through us, become conscious of itself.."

Now, you owe me the truth Anijo: You've been studying The Phenomenology of Spirit sometime in your life I'm sure.

Anijo a dit…

Non, Flocon, je n'avais jamais lu ce livre. Mais je le ferai maintenant. Merci pour le lien.

J'ai trouvé un résumé ici pour m'aider avant de le lire.

I have a circle of artist friends who I get together with occasionally and I should think that they will enjoy this. Thank you so much.

Anijo a dit…

I meant to add that a week ago we were discussing consciousness and love and our animal. Interesting that what you have brought up is similar to our discussion. So the next time that we meet, I'll have some ideas to add to the mix because of you.

Flocon a dit…

Je n'ai pas lu la phénoménologie de l'Esprit Anijo and never will 'cos it's really too difficult, too long and I don't have that much time left to live.

Je suis sûr que moins de 100 personnes par an lisent cet ouvrage de Hegel en France, en Allemagne (difficile à savoir en fait) ou aux U.S.

L'important est de savoir que le livre existe et quelles en sont les principales thèses.

(FWIW Schopenhauer was mad at Hegel whom he called a charlatan))

Wiki anglais donne un bon résumé.

Merci pour ton lien que je vais imprimer afin de le lire tranquillement before going to sleep... ♪ ♫ ♪ ☺

Ned Ludd a dit…

I didn't really understand your point about laughing and the "real". Humor can be another way--often shorter and more efficient--of describing the "real". In one of Woody Allen's films, he tells a woman he is in love with about a rival, "He talks about exchanging ideas, but he just wants to exchange bodily fluids."

There is the joke about "What is the difference between Astronomy and Astrology?" The answer: About 50 IQ points.

Then there is the use of double meanings of words. I give an example from a limerick(the dirty ones are always the funniest). A limerick is a poem that has the rhyme scheme aabba and the number of syllables is not important, but the rhythm is.

There once was a man from Kent,
whose dick was so long that it bent.
To save himself trouble,
he put it in double,
so instead of coming, he went.

Edward Lear who made them popular described them as "nonsense verse". But to my mind, they express a "real" sense. I looked in Wikipedia France, but it didn't give any examples in French. I think I may have asked sometime earlier if they, or their equivalent exist in French. Finally, I guess I repeat myself in saying that I am confused by your point.

Anijo a dit…

Good one Ned
How about an astronomy limerick.

There was young lady named Bright
Whose speed was much faster than light
She set out one day in a relative way
And returned home the previous night

Flocon a dit…

Anijo,

J'ai regardé ton lien sur le résumé de la phénoménologie de l'esprit and, would you believe it, Ayn Rand is mentioned, in chapt.IV The Philosopher, § 7!

The text was written in 1993, eleven years after she died.

She sure must have held one or two generations of Americans under her sway...

Flocon a dit…

Ned,

"I didn't really understand your point about laughing and the "real"."

Il y a trois possibilités:

1°) Je me suis mal exprimé

2°) J'ai eu une mauvaise idée

3°) Personne ne m'a compris.

J'exclus la troisième possibilité, il ne reste donc que les deux autres.

Remarque que j'ai posé une question: Se pourrait-il que l'humour en tant qu'il est une forme de distorsion et mise à distance du réel...

I wasn't that much assertive, just asking.

The question was: Why are women so largely sensitive to humor and responsive to witty men?

"Humor can be another way--often shorter and more efficient--of describing the "real"."

Reminds me of a quote by Brecht.

Note that in this case W. Allen was speaking of a rival. I doubt he would be succesfull in saying to the desired one: "I don't want to exchange ideas with you, just exchange bodily fluids."

Anijo a dit…

>She sure must have held one or two generations of Americans under her sway...

Ah, you have a sharp eye Flocon. Can you believe that she is being discussed on another forum that I go to. Yes, I'm sure you can. ☺

Your ideas on seduction are difficult to understand, it's true.. I don't know quite how to respond.

I was looking at the Carte Tournant below and I see a flag from Paris, Ile-de-France and a flag from Artesia NM. I don't live anywhere near Artesia...

Also I noticed the other day a little flag from Massachusetts but, this same person didn't register on the live feed bar...

The mysteries of the internet..

Flocon a dit…

"Ah, you have a sharp eye Flocon"

This goes to show how attentive and curious I am to read the links my right honourable commentators do me the favor to post on Shall We Talk. ;-)

re the carte tournante, I've noticed it's not 100% reliable. When you see a spark blinking from Paris it may be me, Ned or another regular (maybe anonyme mélomane?).

Same for the Feedjit counter. It gives some indication but doesn't register all the visits.

I have another counter which is much more reliable, it seems that no hit escapes it.

Yet this visit from Artesia doesn't appear as such but redirects to albuquerque.

Oui, les mystères de l'Internet...

As of now, there has been 62 hits (96 yesterday) many of them arriving after they searched for Molière on Google images since I wrote this post on the Mysteries of the Internet...

Yesterday I looked by myself and indeed this portrait is now referenced under my blog when you do the research on US Google images.

"Your ideas on seduction are difficult to understand"

Mu ideas aren't about seduction per se but of the use and effectiveness of humor as a "tool" for seducing women.

Two questions were asked and remain unanswered.

Flocon a dit…

Off topic.

The fine art of recycling

Nearly three years ago I wrote a post on which Anijo, among others, left two comments.

Now, last week Roger Cohen wrote an opinion in the NYT, questioning the recent new security measures implemented in US airports.

I just had to change a few words and post my comment which eventually was recommanded by 33 readers.

I need to strike a deal of exclusivity with the NYT so that they share their audience with me...

Anijo a dit…

Oops... I know how it irritates you when your questions aren't answered !
:-D


The question was: Why are women so largely sensitive to humor and responsive to witty men?

Well, I enjoy humor because it is enjoyable to smile and to laugh. Witty men are interesting. Flocon, are you not attracted to someone who has a good sense of humor?

That said, the main reason that I am attracted to someone is because they share the same basic values and interests in life. The men I have dated have all been liberals (in the American sense of that word) who are intelligent and interested in the arts and philosophy and the same kind of music that I like. Their ability to tell good jokes is of no importance. But then a sense of humor and being witty is not the same thing as telling jokes.

This is the best that I can answer and my response seems to be a tad lame, which is why I didn't really want to respond in the first place.

Anijo a dit…

Two questions were asked and remain unanswered

Pardon, mais je n'arrive pas à trouver l'autre question..

Flocon a dit…

"I know how it irritates you when your questions aren't answered !"

Ce n'est pas tant que cela m'agace mais quand on s'engage dans une discussion il faut le faire en suivant des règles méthodologiques. Sinon cela aboutit à tout et n'importe quoi. ;-)

En plus il y a la possibilité to be taken for a ride. And I don't like that, do you?


As pertains humor in seduction: Eh bien voilà une réponse sensée! ☺

Mon idée est que l'humour agit comme le vin sur l'esprit.

Wine makes one feel happy, it's pleasant, cela détend, it gives a feeling of dizziness, it somehow alters/distorts the perception we have of our environment and also of our relations to people we're talking to.

Aren't we prone to be more open and confident in others when we're a tad inebriated?

You know the effects wine can induce by some women.

My "theory" is that humor tends to achieve the same effects on a more sophisticated level.

That's why men often resort to humor (when they can) and why women are sensitive to humor like they're usually sensitive to some liquors...

Now that's my personal view of course.

--------------------

Le seconde question était la dernière phrase du billet (Diane Keaton and W. Allen).

Anijo, I've created a page specially for you ladies on this blog.

Je l'ai datée d'il y a 4 an (avant que le blog ne soit créé) comme ça elle est un peu à part des autres billets.

Anijo a dit…

Le seconde question était la dernière phrase du billet (Diane Keaton and W. Allen

Oui, c'est vrai. Mais la contraire aussi. Y'a des personnes physiquement beaux, mais débiles mentalement.

So one could ask the same question, but assume that the person in question is quite good looking.

Anijo a dit…

La page pour les femmes... Un peu bizarre, mais on verra.. ;)

Flocon a dit…

Oui Anijo, je suis parfois (?) un peu bizarre but on second thought that was a bad move.

I delete the page.

(Actually I wanted to have another try with this Blogger gadget but it failed)

Ned Ludd a dit…

The best film I have seen on a married couple is Woody Allen's "Manhatten Murder Mystery".

The dialogs between Allen and Diane Keaton are excellent.

Flocon a dit…

Je me souviens avoir vu le film à sa sortie et j'en étais émerveillé de bonheur!

La seule réplique dont je me souvienne c'est Allen menaçant Keaton:

"Si tu continues (à enquêter) je ne t'interdirai plus jamais rien"!!!

And also at the end when he raleases Keaton he goes "Ma femme, ma petite femme". Lovely!

I still vividly remember how extatic I was when going out of the theater.

That film really made my day! :D

Ned Ludd a dit…

I'm glad you like MMMM, for me it is at the top. As to your earlier comment, "Note that in this case W. Allen was speaking of a rival. I doubt he would be succesfull in saying to the desired one: "I don't want to exchange ideas with you, just exchange bodily fluids."

I think that might work well sometimes.

Flocon a dit…

"I think that might work well sometimes."

Brin' her on then!

Anijo a dit…

Brin' her on then!

I know a number of women who are this way. I also know a number of men who are not this way. Of course it all depends upon which woman meets which man, and which man meets which woman, or which woman meets which woman, or which man meets which man..

Humans are so complex !

Ned Ludd a dit…

This has been about the seductive humor of men, and there are some people who think that women have less of their own sense of humor.

So I suggest viewing "Absolutely Fabulous"(which I don't think would have worked if it had been men)and stand-ups like Julia Sweeny and Chelsea Handler.

Flocon a dit…

J'ai vu quelques épisodes d'Absolutely Fabulous en V.O (didn't get much of what was said) et doublé en français, ce qui est insupportable.

Jennifer Saunders played a part in a French film 4 years ago. Here is an excerpt where she says (2'39):

"Une relation entre deux êtres est avant tout animale."

She hits the nail on the head, that was the point of the previous post (Doing the dirty).

From my experience and observations, when men indulge in playing jerks they can regress like they are 3 years old or even younger.

It seems that women don't regress under 12 or so...

(Forget Christian Clavier)

merbel a dit…

J'ai revu hier soir Meurtre mystérieux à Manhattan. Vous m'aviez mis l'eau à la bouche à en (re)parler! Je me suis régalée!
Quels dialogues!
Voilà un autre plaisir de l'instant...

Flocon a dit…

J'espère que vous l'avez vu en V.O!

"Voilà un autre plaisir de l'instant..."

Tout à fait. En sortant du cinéma j'étais ébloui et rien n'aurait pu davantage me combler que cette heure et demi passée au spectacle. Cette heure et demie était totalement emplie de bonheur. Plus, ce n'était pas possible comme on dit.