samedi 15 décembre 2012

Pleased to meet you

I find the propagation of life to be beautiful said the mother after she had given birth to the one who would kill her and then 6 adults and 20 children some 20 years later.


How many among the casualties were against any gun-control policy? And particularly among the parents of the 20 children, how many were pro-gun? These ones are moral accomplices of the shooting of their own children then.

This must come to an end, so we hear every time this sort of tragedy happens but the perpetrator of the next one is already alive and his future victims are alive too, waiting to meet their fate, praying Jesus in their churches that he will protect them.

The killer at one time was as young as today's victims, just who's who, knowing full well that the children who have died today and the survivors as well wouldn't have turned saints but another bunch of the usual mix of good guys and bastards humanity is made of.  

Who can assure that among the 27 victims, none would have killed anybody in one's life, including future soldiers, drivers, rapists whatever?

Those who voluntarily perpetuate life tacitly accept that their children may well be victims of evil whatever the form it dons, they make the wager that yes someone will meet apocalypse on earth but that it will be the neighbour, who just happens to be another human being, but as long as it's not me...

43 commentaires:

Anijo a dit…

I find the propagation of life to be beautiful

.... and the wind whispers.. Mary...


The traffic lights they turn up blue tomorrow
And shine their emptiness down on my bed
The tiny island sags downstream
‘Cause the life that lived is, is dead
And the wind screams Mary

Anijo a dit…

Images of broken light, which
Dance before me like a million eyes,
They call me on and on across the universe.
Thoughts meander like a
Restless wind inside a letter box
They tumble blindly as they make their way across the universe.

Jai Guru Deva...

Anijo a dit…




The Sanskrit phrase is a sentence fragment whose words could have many meanings. Literally it approximates as "glory to the shining remover of darkness, and can be paraphrased as "Victory to God divine..

Anijo a dit…

Those who voluntarily perpetuate life tacitly accept that their children may well be victims of evil whatever the form it dons

And those who voluntarily choose to not perpetuate life tacitly accept that they will never have children who are recipients of beauty whatever the form it dons.

It seems she hangs upon the cheek of night like a rich jewel in an Ethiope’s ear, a beauty too rich for use, for earth too dear..

Ned Ludd a dit…

No one knows what will become of the newborn they have. If the parents are losers, they may well bring up a loser. If they are good at upbringing, they could have brilliant offspring. But nothing is certain. Apparently this mass murderer has a brother who is succeeding at university. How can you explain that?

One thing I have noticed over decades in the U.S. is that these mass murderers are almost always white males. I haven't troubled to look up all the cases, but that is what stays in my memory. Blacks or Chicanos get murdered more often, but it is usually gang related or domestic violence.

Also most serial killers seem to be white males. I don't have an idea about what has happened to make them that way.

There are around 12,000 gun killings in the U.S. each year and there are around 18,000 gun suicides, at least according to the last statistics I read.

Anonyme a dit…

Bon, ben, c'est clair que la 'devil woman' et le 'devil man' were meant to get together, and they both live in Paris... it was meant to be.. yes, it is ☺

Anijo, la borracha

Flocon a dit…

Anijo,

Your position apparently is that of those who hold that the world is a mix of good and sometimes evil, good being by far the main constituent of life, only occasionally being marred by the apparition of evil.

C'est ce que l'on appelle l'approche spontanée et naïve (no offence intended, it's just that it is the common accepted term to describe the spontaneous outlook on these issues of morality) de ces thèmes.

My position is that the basis of life is evil and contrary to Augustine, I state that good is the absence of evil.

I have already given an argument some weeks ago: just think of the physical pain we are prone to suffer from: absolutely nothing can compare with the intensity of our pains.

Suffering is positive (not in the moral sense of the word of course) because it makes itself feel whereas good is not. You don't feel you're in a good health, you're just happy not to be sick and to not suffer.

We can see and we don't realize most of the time and when we do we're just happy not to be blind. Should blindness strike, we would be in a permanent state of despair and moral suffering and physical inferiority for the rest of our life.

No moments of peace and tranquillity in any given existence can make up for the agonizing pains the parents who have lost their children the other day (and more than 20 children have died in the US on the 13th of December 2012) are going through now and till the end of their days.

On the other hand, I'm not trying to convince anybody; just being surprised and in complete disarray with awe and horror when evil strikes is a consequence of being unrealistic in my view.

Flocon a dit…

Easy on orange juice Anijo, la borracha

Flocon a dit…

Ned,

"No one knows what will become of the newborn they have."

As I wrote, it's a wager which is unconsciously made par the parents. C'est plus sûr qu'au loto though where your chances to win are 1/ >13 million. There are far more chances that any newborn will be another bastard or an a.hole than a good person, an artist not to mention a saint.

There are indeed many, many, many more idiots and bastards in the history of humanity than saints and geniuses...

-----

As to the predominance of white males among mass murderers, I wonder if it hasn't to do with the militaristic ideology the US baths in.

The US is basically a white male's fabrication in which Blacks and Latinos had no say historically speaking.

Blacks and Latinos also are not descendants of the Anglo-Saxon myth of invulnerable warriors armed to the teeth heading straight to the Walhalla after they've committed their deeds...

Note how many of the mass murderers commit suicide at the end of their murderous path.

Anijo a dit…

Anijo,

Your position apparently is that of those who hold that the world is a mix of good and sometimes evil, good being by far the main constituent of life, only occasionally being marred by the apparition of evil.


Good and evil are both constituents mixed equally, mais oui. It's just that Anijo la borrachera prefers to play with the good, and enjoys a mixed drink.

Ned Ludd a dit…

Evil is especially in the realm of religion. Former Republican presidential and Jesus Freak, Mike Huckabbe, and some evangelical ministers have blamed the crime on the removal of Jesus, God, and prayer from the schools.

Another example of attributing disasters to a supposed immorality for which God punishes us, or at least some.

The other evil that comes out of this is the argument that we should arm teachers to be prepared to respond. Forget that the guns are probably in a drawer or cabinet, probably locked to prevent students from playing with them. Also forget that a teacher may go whacko and use the arm against the students.

So you have this support of ideological evil that is the basis of evil in practice.

Ned Ludd a dit…

Flocon, a bit off topic but ARTE has shown a documentary called "740 Park Ave" which examines the takeover of politics by the richest since the 1970's. It also shows the role of that evil Ayn Rand in the policies of Republican politicians like Paul Ryan the former vice-presidential candidate. It is very informative on what has gone drastically wrong with the American system of government.

Mostly the fault of Republicans, but also of some powerful Democrats. ARTE may replay it as it often does or maybe it can be seen on their site. They often have free view for a week.

Flocon a dit…

Ned,

La video de 740 Park avenue n'est actuellement pas disponible sur Arte.

Evil is especially in the realm of religion

Disons que les religions traitent du mal à leur façon infantile mais le mal existe indépendamment des religions. C'est un fait humain donc elles s'en sont saisies.

Les religions anthropomorphisent comme l'ont fait toutes les sociétés humaines dans leur enfance. Think of the Greek pantheon for example or the Egyptians'one and the Japanese kami.

It's easier for masses to grasp human figures than concepts; see Plato's ideas of good, bad, virtue, beautiful...

Some governor (that of Connecticut?) said recently that the Devil had come to Newtown. The fallen angel is the Christian human representation of evil and an image easy to understand for believers who can then put the blame on a human face whereas it is impossible to ascribe responsibility to concepts.

Isn't it funnier to burn "witches" on the stake rather than accept one's own part of evil?

Le sujet est intéressant qui est l'occasion de comparer la figure de Jésus qui se présente comme le fils de Dieu (fait homme) et celle d'Allah qui n'en est que le prophète et n'a pas de visage.

Le fondement de l'Islam est peut-être plus spirituel que celui du Christianisme, même si sa théologie est infiniment plus simpliste et basique comme celle de toutes les autres religions, except Christianism and buddhism precisely.

Flocon a dit…

Muhammad as the prophet of Allah of course, not the other way round.

Ned Ludd a dit…

A Theory.

Early human hunters had to work in coordinated teams to be successful, like lions today. Killing each other would seem to be counter-productive. Humans then discovered agriculture which could support larger populations. At some time a division of labor was probably found to be more productive. Then there came to be surpluses of food. Someone had to organize this more complex structure.

Somewhere along the line came what we now call class divisions. Some clever persons probably found methods of getting hold of some of this wealth without having to do the work. So rulers and priest or shaman castes developed. Since there was surplus production, they may well have been willing to kill rivals to maintain their dominance and privilege. Is this when evil entered human society?

Those two castes could work together with the priests pretending to understand the arbitrariness of nature and creating imaginary beings that were supposed to be beyond the ken of common people. Obeying the priests and following rituals and making sacrifices to regulate the unstable forces of nature were imposed on the population.

If people opposed the imposition of these rites and rituals, as well as the tributes they had to pay to the ruling castes, they may well have been labeled witches, sorcerers, or an early form of satanists. Thus creating the idea of evil would serve the purposes of those in charge.

It would be that dissidents were not only enemies of the rulers, but were so because they were evil. In this construction then, evil is a direct result of the creation of religion which itself arose from class society. Inevitably the murderous behavior of the rulers and priests would extend to the society as a whole.

I don't care to go on over details how rebellions started and led to kingdoms and empires competing with and destroying one another. I am just trying to explore the origins. Emperors would commit mass murder for no apparent reason. Today we have common individuals who do it for unknown reasons.

I am already fed up with different American news media all speculating on the mental state of the evil-doer in the school case. So far they know little or nothing about it. However they seem eager to place the blame, as always, on one "sick" individual. Rarely does the mass media explore the fact that the person is a product of his and their society. He didn't suddenly become a killer at 20 years old. There is a social as much as a personal history leading up to the crime.

If there is evil in us all, which is likely the case, it may be a little in our genes, but I think it is mostly societal and mostly the religious aspect of our society.

Flocon a dit…

Bel effort Ned !

An extended comment like your last one takes a good half an hour to compose I know.

I globally accept your "theory" as you label it, but just for the sake of discussing:

" Is this when evil entered human society?"

At the end of your text you give an indication which I completely agree with:

"If there is evil in us all, which is likely the case, it may be a little in our genes.

Je crois en effet que le mal est inhérent à la nature humaine et que cela est un fait de nature: Toute entité quelle qu'elle soit tend à se développer et à s'étendre au sein de son environnement et au détriment de ses semblables.

Seule une force égale ou supérieure est capable de s'opposer à la prolifération des cellules (think cancer).

Le mal n'est pas entré dans la société humaine à un moment donné de son évolution, le mal est inhérent à l'organisme biologique que nous sommes.

Toute société et jusqu'à l'univers lui-même est le process d'une tension permanente entre d'innombrables forces contradictoires qui chacune tendent à s'imposer aux autres.

La cohésion toujours en devenir de l'univers et des sociétés est le résultat de l'équilibre qui résulte de l'opposition des multiples forces antagonistes qui les composent.

With every newborn a new world appears and the whole process starts again from scratch: To the newborn, there is no distinction between h/h and the outer world and the years of education h/s will go through is to teach h/h to tame h/h killing instincts and to put them on leash.

The process very often fails to an abysmal degree and ends up with the newborn turning havoc and going into killing spree.

Only in the US it is possible to provide would be killers with the means and tools to realize their murderous tendencies but evil hasn't come down on them from outside, the seed lives within each of us and comes down from generation to generation.

The guy in Newtown killed his mother and one would think he also killed the origin of what happens but his father is also at the origin of the killing as well as the grand-parents and great-grand-parents etc. ad infinitum since all the thousands and dozens of thousands + of ancestors the killers is the ultimate output (of ?) have their share of responsibility in the death of such 5 year old girl in the school.

Time is irrelevant here, there is a continuum in the lineage of everyone of us.

One (or several) of my ancestors in the Middle Ages or during the age of the Celts most probably have maimed and killed some other human beings and the same goes for all of us.

Ned Ludd a dit…

Maybe the seed exists in all of us but I think that is a minor point. What it needs is the environment and the nutrition to develop. I don't point the blame to the parents or their genetic heritage who apparently raised another child with no such problems.

What is the difference between the two brothers? This is where I think other societal influences come to play. I definitely agree with you about the U.S. giving the tools for murder to what might be called "defective" individuals.

A major U.S. news network commentator made the comparison with an event in China. The same day a guy entered a classroom and attacked and wounded 22 children. None of them died because the guy only had a knife. He couldn't get hold of a gun, much less a war gun.

Anijo a dit…

Flocon, Ned, SemperFi, ZapPow, Jan and Xtine:

Happy Christma-Hanu-Rama-Ka-Dona-Kwanzaa.

Flocon a dit…

Hi Anijo,

I had never heard of that Zimmerman guy of course but there are many videos of him on YT. I've found that one among others where he deals with Barack, O'Reilly, Limbaugh etc.

Ned cannot answer right now, she's on her way to that place for the midnight mass...

Flocon a dit…

And now Roy Zimmerman has his own page on the French Wiki.

I haven't yet translated the whole article (it's already on line but hidden to the readers), I'll return to it tomorrow.

Anijo a dit…

Salut Flocon et Joyeux Noël... Je vois que tu aimes Zimmerman assez bien pour commencer à traduire la page en français. Kiss kiss on this lovely xmas eve.

Anijo a dit…

Ned cannot answer right now, she's on her way to that place for the midnight mass...

Whatever that place was, I received a 'forbidden' message ... lol

Anijo a dit…

403 forbidden to be exact. Ned's nickname is hereafter '403', aka forbidden.

Flocon a dit…

A place where Ned goes that is forbidden to access... Hmmm... Why am I not surprised?

Ned Ludd a dit…

Is 403 worse than 404? I've liked Roy Zimmerman for years now and am surprised I never mentioned him. Here are a couple of others, Neal Gladstone and a topical song by Weird Al Yankovic Al has done many parodies of popular songs.

Finally, I probably mentioned this guy before Eric Schwartz

Flocon a dit…

Now girls, you really do keep me busy...

re Al Jankovic, I remember watching that one some 20 years ago and I really liked it.

Ned, 403 is sure worse than 404 which is just the purgatory stage. 403 is the main entrance to hell where you belong ;-)

Ned Ludd a dit…

Non, 403 est mon jardin sécret où personne n'a le droit d'entrée. Mon jardin d'Eden soit. Si je regarde par le vidéo de surveillance, je peux faire exception à ma guise.

Un autre chanteur qui vaut la peine d'être connu est Tim Minchin

Anijo a dit…

Flocon,

You have added so much to the French Wiki history of knowledge. Your contribution will live on for a very long time... congrats.

Anijo a dit…

Au lieu de 403 ou 404, peut-être Number 9.

Everyone of them knew that as time went by
They'd get a little bit older and a litter bit slower

Anijo a dit…

Flocon,

Please forgive me for all of the errors and deleted comments. Blame it on this and that.

Flocon a dit…

Anijo,

Thanks for putting the link.
I purchased the White Album the day it was issued in France (Nov. 68). I was 16 and I instantly caught up with Revolution #9.

I never went through the stage of wondering what it was all about, if it was mere crap or nihilistic avant-garde accessible only to the happy few, I just digged it from the very first time I heard it.

And now, each time I listen to it, it vividly reminds me of when I was 16/17 (and you know what I mean of course...)

-----------
re the bottles, isn't it strange that this very evening I was thinking I would gladly drink some Cognac, just to come home and read your comment and the invitation to beverage so to say.

It's not only that you possess paranormal powers, I now know for a fact that among your Indian ancestors there have been a number of sorcerers and soothsayers...

Anijo a dit…

Aye, Flocon... you leave me in state of feeling inexplicably charmed.

Anijo a dit…

And I saw you standing there.

Ned Ludd a dit…

Since numbers are the name of the game, try Lene Lovich http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr1I3mBojc0Lucky Number with lyrics, maybe a sort of feminine I saw you standing there.

I used to love to listen to her, Nina Hagen, Hazel O'Conner.

Ned Ludd a dit…

Lucky Number Oops, I screwed up the first time.

Anijo a dit…

I still have an LP of Lene Lovich (New Toy).

Anijo a dit…

Ned and Flocon,

Something you might appreciate.

It's rather long and perhaps too esoteric.

Flocon a dit…

Anijo,

"Aye, Flocon... you leave me in state of feeling inexplicably charmed."

Don't you still know that you and me were meant to be for each other?

Also, "You have added so much to the French Wiki history of knowledge. Your contribution will live on for a very long time... congrats."

You have no idea how much energy I have to display in order to make up for the absence of a uniform... {ô-Ô}

Flocon a dit…

Ned,

Speaking of numbers, maybe you had 99 Luftballons in mind?

Ned Ludd a dit…

Flocon, I like that song, and it reminds me a bit of the Talking Heads. I never use German and I was surprised that I understood most of the lyrics. My German friends tell me I should take it up again.

Anijo, I've always liked David Byrne and the Talking Heads when there was a sort of renaissance of pop music in the late 70's with also Devo, Pere Ubu, The Ramones, Blondie, Television, and so many others.

Byrne also introduced foreign singers to America with his label Luaka Bop and helped the spread of World Music. One of my favorites is Peruvian Susana Baca

Anijo a dit…

This has been
an enjoyable thread
Thank you Flocon
and thank you Ned.
☺☺☺

Flocon a dit…

Merci Anijo,

Vous êtes une véritable médiathèque à vous deux les filles. I don't know half the names you come with, let alone the titles.

As regards the Talking Heads and David Byrne, I just have heard these names but coulnd't name one of their songs or even recognize one tune :-(

I couldn't tell why. Maybe was I less exposed to music, TV etc. and didn't care much?

In the 90s there was the Spark I think. Also, there were so many groups and singers I simply didn't know where to start.


The comparison Ned makes between 99 Luftballons and The Talking Heads reminds me of Walk like an Egytian where there's also an opposition between soft singing parts being followed with massive band attacks like here.

To make things even worse, I (almost) never know which group or singer is British or American...

Ned Ludd a dit…

Flocon, Nina Hagen is German so you will understand more of her songs than me, though she also sings in English.

This is for you as you like hot women Blondie

Finally an example of Talking Heads They played at the Olympia in Paris, and I recorded a solo of David Bryne broadcast by FranceInter several years ago. They were one of the most influential bands of their time. Incidentally, I also saw a solo concert by Lou Reed in Paris, at the Foundation Cartier I believe.