Just when you think you can engage into interesting, honest and intelligent exchanges you stumble upon this (See May 11th). Huh? Classy eh? What's the point then? Isn't it universally known that the French are innate anti-Semites? Which, as everyone knows, is the ultimate shibbolleth of contemporary morality. One can't be any vilest as being an anti-Semite right?
After a few days you're told that weren't it for Americans, French wouldn't be spoken anymore after WWII or something to that effect... (Apologies were later offered).
Try some irony when you read something (See comments) from someone who obviously hasn't got a clue and you'll be met with heavy innuendos (with Napoleon as guest star) or downright insults with a strong scatological component.
Not that I care much in the end. After three years of surfing on the Internet I've got used to this permanent underlying anti-French sentiment among many Americans. I also know it's not representative of all Americans but, nonetheless, there's a massive trend here.
By and large Americans don't really care about the French I know and yet, there are many clichés and prejudice commonly shared among a majority of them.
It's a fact of life that each nationality (many) carries with it a certain amount of ready made pictures and representation. But boy, do the French have heavy ones in America!!! And not exactly flattering in general...
The funny thing is to try to understand why the French are so specifically targeted. What have they done eventually to Americans? One could expect the Germans not to be their favorite friends. Weren't both twice at war within 25 years? And not precisely skirmishes. But no, nothing against the Germans. Or the Japanese (Pearl Harbour anyone?). What about the Vietnamese? Or the Russians after 40 years of cold war? Nichts, nada, zil, zero, rien. Well, I thought the Iranians were now the bêtes noires of America. But nothing against the people of Iran, just the leaders of the regime. And what about the English? Didn't they burn down the White House in 1812? And they weren't exactly helpful in Vietnam, were they?
But when it comes to the French, it's the people of France that is the real target of all the heavy irony (best case) and the outright insults and wrath coming from America. Talk of cultural racism! No other country seems to harbour such bad feelings against France and the French than the US. And I wonder, will the French be ever forgiven for Yorktown and Miss Liberty?
Like the people who often seems to think of itself as the best people on earth (how many times have I read this line...) needed to have a permanent anti-model to permanently assert its own self-esteem. "We're good and look how bad the other (the French) is!" (Racist, anti-Semite, unhealthy, coward, effeminate, sleazy, economically impotent, immoral, treacherous, unreliable etc. you name it) "All that we're not, we the best people on earth."
In the meantime, these same people who indulge into this kind of nationalist hatred keep on hammering that they're looked down upon by the French (and Europeans in general) which they think is evidence of said French arrogance and aloofness.
Man, these people create their own enemies and carry on nurturing the very conditions that make them appear... how to phrase it? not entirely grown up in the eyes of the world.
This is really surprising indeed...
(The picture is Le verrou (the bolt) by Jean Honoré Fragonard)
After a few days you're told that weren't it for Americans, French wouldn't be spoken anymore after WWII or something to that effect... (Apologies were later offered).
Try some irony when you read something (See comments) from someone who obviously hasn't got a clue and you'll be met with heavy innuendos (with Napoleon as guest star) or downright insults with a strong scatological component.
Not that I care much in the end. After three years of surfing on the Internet I've got used to this permanent underlying anti-French sentiment among many Americans. I also know it's not representative of all Americans but, nonetheless, there's a massive trend here.
By and large Americans don't really care about the French I know and yet, there are many clichés and prejudice commonly shared among a majority of them.
It's a fact of life that each nationality (many) carries with it a certain amount of ready made pictures and representation. But boy, do the French have heavy ones in America!!! And not exactly flattering in general...
The funny thing is to try to understand why the French are so specifically targeted. What have they done eventually to Americans? One could expect the Germans not to be their favorite friends. Weren't both twice at war within 25 years? And not precisely skirmishes. But no, nothing against the Germans. Or the Japanese (Pearl Harbour anyone?). What about the Vietnamese? Or the Russians after 40 years of cold war? Nichts, nada, zil, zero, rien. Well, I thought the Iranians were now the bêtes noires of America. But nothing against the people of Iran, just the leaders of the regime. And what about the English? Didn't they burn down the White House in 1812? And they weren't exactly helpful in Vietnam, were they?
But when it comes to the French, it's the people of France that is the real target of all the heavy irony (best case) and the outright insults and wrath coming from America. Talk of cultural racism! No other country seems to harbour such bad feelings against France and the French than the US. And I wonder, will the French be ever forgiven for Yorktown and Miss Liberty?
Like the people who often seems to think of itself as the best people on earth (how many times have I read this line...) needed to have a permanent anti-model to permanently assert its own self-esteem. "We're good and look how bad the other (the French) is!" (Racist, anti-Semite, unhealthy, coward, effeminate, sleazy, economically impotent, immoral, treacherous, unreliable etc. you name it) "All that we're not, we the best people on earth."
In the meantime, these same people who indulge into this kind of nationalist hatred keep on hammering that they're looked down upon by the French (and Europeans in general) which they think is evidence of said French arrogance and aloofness.
Man, these people create their own enemies and carry on nurturing the very conditions that make them appear... how to phrase it? not entirely grown up in the eyes of the world.
This is really surprising indeed...
(The picture is Le verrou (the bolt) by Jean Honoré Fragonard)
16 commentaires:
Hi Flocon,
I have read the comments on this blog and it has surprised me that the blog master allows some of these stupid comments to remain without responding to them. I see that you attempted to clear up any untoward comments only to be lumped in with the idiot as "children".
I cannot answer your question as to "why the French" as I don't know anything about conservatives and this particular group of people. All I can say, is that I am embarrassed that my fellow citizens have no problems with insulting the French left and right.
I don't know what else to say at this moment. I'll think about it and try to say something more substantial later.
I have been on many British blogs and the Brits are much more insulting to Americans than any Frenchies are. On the French blogs, when a particular Frenchie is unfair towards Americans, some other Frenchie always comes along and tells them to behave.
On the British blogs, though, they just have a wonderful time attacking Americans. And yet Americans never go after the Brits as they do the Frenchies. Why? Hell, I don't know!
By the way...
This painting in relation to this topic... ouf! I don't know what to say.. An aggression towards this woman, and why? Is she a temptress? Is he raping her? I suppose that the scene is open to some interpretation.. Why is he locking the door? Is he raping her?
Some French give their accusers the stick with which to beat them. Former Prime Minister Raffarin for instance. Of course you have to look at who he is brown-nosing here.
"Instructions have been given to public prosecutors to exercise the utmost vigilance in acts of a racist or anti-Semitic character and to react with the utmost firmness. Consequently, I have observed that whenever the perpetrators anti-Semitic acts have been identified, the sentences handed down have been particularly severe. I welcome this.
France has also worked to strengthen measures against anti-Semitic acts at the European Union for regrettably anti-Semitic acts have also increased in Belgium, the Netherlands, Britain and Germany. We must work together to fight more effectively against anti-Semitism.
Lastly, a bill providing for stiffer penalties for racist, anti-Semitic acts was submitted by Paris Deputy Pierre Lellouche, whom I salute this evening, and passed unanimously with full government support. It will give judges the means to punish these intolerable acts more effectively.
Besides anti-Semitic violence, we see the expression of anti-Semitism changing forms in France, and this is disturbing. I have been greatly concerned to note, for example, that some people are calling for a boycott of Israeli products.
I must add that they are liable to be brought before the correctional courts. The penal code sets severe penalties of imprisonment for any act of discrimination based on real or alleged affiliation with a given nation or religion. I know that the justice minister is giving personal attention to this matter. Special instructions have been given to the prosecutor’s offices concerned, on the basis of elements communicated to the Ministry of Justice."
http://www.ambafrance-us.org/news/statmnts/2003/raffarin_crif012503.asp
- The PM joins the "new anti-semitism" crowd and threatens severe penalties for taking a political position against Israel. We can see the hand of our friend Lellouche behind this. He also globally applauds severe sentences for supposed anti-semitic acts, with no consideration of the individual circumstances. It seems that there are now different laws for different communities. That is hardly republican and laic.
Raffy continues,
"Action at the international level is essential, and we are studying the possibility of proposing an international response to such problems on the Internet.
Anti-Semitism is at times spread even in our classrooms. There we are experiencing the failure to integrate with our republican values, a fundamental mission for schools. In some educational establishments, it is becoming difficult for teachers to raise the subject of the Shoah or to utter the name of Israel.
I share the conviction of Alain Finkielkraut that a civilization that forgets its past is condemned to relive it. We must teach the holocaust.
The Ministry of National Education is mobilizing the resources to find solutions quickly which will be based on the absolute firmness of principles and organizing their application on the ground: The priority objective is to assist schools and teachers to do a better job in dealing with these unacceptable phenomena.
In higher education, disturbing phenomena have been seen, particularly the call by one university in Paris to stop the renewal of academic cooperation between the European Union and Israel, and for a moratorium on exchanges with Israeli universities. It is not an attack on the university’s autonomy to say that this initiative, which exceeded its authority, is inadmissible. And the government has forcefully condemned it."
- What evidence did he have that anti-semitism was spread in the classroom? Using fanatic ideologue Finkielkraut as a reference is not a way to make yourself credible.
For Raffy, it is inadmissible that some at the university take political action he disagrees with. This was put out by the Embassy of France in the U.S. so it is not surprising that some Americans have mistaken ideas about the French.
I could have sworn that this post used to have another title... Anyway, now I understand how the painting fits the post.. ;)
Joann
"...only to be lumped in with the idiot as "children"
Thanks for noticing. Yes, I felt that was adding insult to injury.
Some days ago LA did resent a comment made by ned. From my window, said comment certainly wasn't off base but since LA is rather sensitive I thought I had to let him know I could understand how he felt.
In any case, I wouldn't let go any derogatory comment as the one which we're thinking of. When the blog master doesn't intervene it usually means he condones the "agressor". Too bad...
The Brits are notorious for being the most agressive when it comes to about any foreign nationality. The French, the Germans, the Italians, the Americans, you name it. And when there's football at stake, oh my!!!
"On the French blogs, when a particular Frenchie is unfair towards Americans, some other Frenchie always comes along and tells them to behave."
This I have witnessed many times indeed.
"I could have sworn that this post used to have another title"
Yes, there was another title. When I wrote the post, last night, I chose a title in a hurry and wasn't quite satisfied with the outcome (Someone to hate)
As for this particular painting... All the same, it came to my mind within seconds.
Firstly, isn't Fragonard (and Watteau) the typical French painter for many people? France of the XVIIIth (Louis XIV, Versailles etc.) A boudoir atmosphere, love and lust like many think the French are the epitome of.
Also, there are some questions regarding this specific painting. Is the man trying to get rid of the girl after he's got what he wanted and she wants him to stay when he tries to pull open the lock or, on the contrary, is he trying to lock the bolt and abuse her? Does this painting take place before or after?
The second possibility doesn't seem to hold water imho. The girl doesn't really seem to want him to stay, she's in a defensive position.
Anyway, there's been love and hate between the two, but not as the same time of course. What is clear is that they both need each other...
Don't put too much importance on this picture because I could have chosen something else had I taken the time to ponder about it...
Well, it's just a blog you know....
I'd rather judge that the lady on the painting reveals the kind of weak defence that says the contrary of what it looks. Therefore the twin theories of closing in/opening out are both equally discussed.
Certainly something to be compared with, say, countries relationship.
JoAnn, so sorry you don't write in French anymore. I adored it. And i could learn a lot about your opinions as well.
Don't loose the benefit of your stay in France, go, type. Vas-y, écris !
Etchdi
Vas-y, écris
Ben, alors, okay Etchdi. But forgive me when I make a fool of myself! ;) ... How to say that in French? Pardon moi quand je fais l'idoite?! :-D
Thanks for noticing. Yes, I felt that was adding insult to injury.
Well, it was obvious, and it hurt to see a man such as yourself lumped in with some idiot with a two-digit I.Q.!
And, yes, I did notice that you reprimanded Ned for something which did not even approach the kind of nastiness and idiocy to which you were afforded by (I forget their names). At least Ned presented his views in a detailed and informed manner.
When the blog master doesn't intervene it usually means he condones the "agressor". Too bad..
Yes, indeed, too bad, because I thought that the blog master was of a higher level than that...
As for the painting, it is clear that the meaning is ambivalent and it's meaning is colored by our own perceptions and experiences... ;)
it's meaning
Forgive me... That should have been "its meaning"
Just dropping in to say Hello!
All the Frenchies had a marvelous time. Not one mean word spoken to them. They found it amusing that no one even commented on their accent when they spoke.
Why people says mean things? Hmmm, very good question. I think when mean words are spoken, they are louder, harsher and head straight to the heart.
They seem intensified for the whold group but they do not justify the majority.
I know my french friends would/have more than jumped to my offense if they even think that someone is about to utter the wrong word. (As I would do the same for them)
Etchdi:
"I'd rather judge that the lady on the painting reveals the kind of weak defence that says the contrary of what it looks."
Since I'm less familiar than Etchdi seems to be with this sort of situation, I guess the definitive interpretation of the picture is still open to discussion.
Hi kd,
Nice to see you back. And glad that your friends had a good time.
Why do I think you're living in the Pyreneens region???
OT, but did anyone else get a spam mail from something called blogger.bounces.google.com?
It refers to this site as if there is a message left here in the comments. This must be a bot that somehow recuperates google email addresses. The full address is,
barb michelen noreply-comment@blogger.com
Feb 2, 2008 7:52 PM
subject [Shall we talk?] Nouveau commentaire sur I need you ('cos it makes me feel better).
mailed-by blogger.bounces.google.com
I think that the usual advice is not to "envoyer un commentaire" and not to reply to "se desabonner".
Sorry for the interruption.
ned,
Oui j'ai reçu ce message hier en commentaire. I've deleted it.
You are correct. I do live near that region.
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