Indeed we're all slaves of our ignorance and prejudice, historical and cultural environments as well as our own personal limitations.
Pound's remark is a reminder of an issue as ancient as the world:
Trying to free humanity from the ocean of darkness it baths in has always been the constant message and self-imposed duty of religious figures sur as J.C or Asian gurus and religious prophets.
We're all like the slaves in the cave Plato refers to but most of us don't know we're slaves and believe in their free will (ha ha).
And also, humanity doesn't want to be shown the way to freedom and end up crucifying Christ or mocking and laughin' at philosophers. Think of Nietzsche's Zarathustra for example.
The dark side of this drive to save the world or any individual is the temptation to impose one's will and way of thinking to others, which apparently is part of our nature.
This is the discourse of any would be dictator: he does it for the good of its people and its country. And the same goes for domestic tyrants (typically despotic fathers or abusive mothers).
No surprise all religions, and I mean ALL of them, eventually resort to violence and coercition: their very nature reverberates with the human drive to impose one's will to others (think Freudian sadism mixed with Darwinian struggle for life). All in the name of God of course...
I still find the notion of 'free will' to be not all that exacting. It is logical that the way that we react to any given situation is a result of all of our prior experiences and dna/genes. And yet, and any given moment, cannot our consciousness override our prior experiences and/or dan/genes. Perhaps our consciousness represents our 'free will'?
I may not have fully understood your point Anijo but apparently your questioning is: isn't there a moment when, ultimately, at the very beginning of the long chain that has preceded us and of which we are a by-product, we are faced with our deepest and most innate nature, the one we arrive on earth with.
Well, for a start there are our dan/genes which are responsible for you to be a she and me a he which entails that not only our feelings but also our ways of reasoning are dependant on our genre, who can seriously challenge this point?
Secondly, what you are is beyond any explanation. Some people are born to be good ones, some others to be not so good and some others to be definitive bastards. C'est un mystère.
Some people are born to be bright smart and intelligent, some others will turn out to be genius and/or artists of a size which simply doesn't compare to the world of dwarfs they live in, but these are other determinations that have been in the waiting since the beginning of humanity and even life.
Think of any figure you consider to be the epitome of what you admire the most. Said person had parents who certainly didn't plan to give birth to a bright mind whose grand-parents had great-great-great grand-parents who themselves etc. have nothing to do with what happened at the 200th generation after them and yet the oak was contained in the acorn (the image is from Hegel).
How responsible are genius of their specificity? Did they chose at any given second of their childhood that they'd become Johann S. Bach or W. Faulkner?
Ancient Greeks thought that geniuses were specifically singled out by the gods because they couldn't find any other explanation.
To make a long story short, even what we are which makes us different from all others is beyond any explanation. C'est comme ça, some are born to develop their intelligence, some others will always be irrecoverable imbeciles. Ain't life unkind?
The genius is no more responsible for the light he brings to humanity than the sinpleton is for the darkness he lives in
Free will is a fiction some people need to believe in because they need to believe rather than understand.
Which brings us back to an author I already mentioned, the one who suggested life in the end is just a system of necessary beliefs and fictions. Remember this?
It may be suggested that the reason why Harry is brighter than Jonathan is because Harry's brain is more and better wired that that of Jonathan's.
Well, ok, why not after all? But is Harry resonsible for his brain to be used at 2% of its potential while we mortal humans can only employ 0,2% ot it? When did Hary make the decision to step on the gas and how did he do that?
I disagree that a slave is s.o who's waiting for s.o to come and free h. because a true slave is typically unaware he's a slave and doesn't want to change or be helped to change his status.
Now I agree that one who waits for s.o to come and free h. is still a slave even if h.'s conscious of his situation.
But there are at least another distinction to be made: that between the legal status of the slave and h. mental condition.
Pound refers to the mental acceptance of one's status of slave otherwise his statement is plain insulting and provocative to the Blacks of XIXth century America who'd still be slaves hadn't their masters been forced to free them.
To a certain extent we're currently slaves of the media and the political system which forces us to chose between the devil and the deep blue sea to the ultimate benefit of the politicians.
Chacun dans sa cage en effet, dans laquelle la plupart se croient libres parce que comme l'oiseau, il peuvent "librement" sauter d'un barreau à l'autre. Belle liberté en effet...
Mais à tout prendre, pourraient-ils supporter de comprendre qu'ils sont prisonniers? Nous revoilà devant la grotte de Platon.
Je ne sais de qui est la citation que tu as déjà mentionnée il y a longtemps.
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Perhaps we are all slaves wanting someone to come and free us.
Indeed we're all slaves of our ignorance and prejudice, historical and cultural environments as well as our own personal limitations.
Pound's remark is a reminder of an issue as ancient as the world:
Trying to free humanity from the ocean of darkness it baths in has always been the constant message and self-imposed duty of religious figures sur as J.C or Asian gurus and religious prophets.
We're all like the slaves in the cave Plato refers to but most of us don't know we're slaves and believe in their free will (ha ha).
And also, humanity doesn't want to be shown the way to freedom and end up crucifying Christ or mocking and laughin' at philosophers. Think of Nietzsche's Zarathustra for example.
The dark side of this drive to save the world or any individual is the temptation to impose one's will and way of thinking to others, which apparently is part of our nature.
This is the discourse of any would be dictator: he does it for the good of its people and its country. And the same goes for domestic tyrants (typically despotic fathers or abusive mothers).
No surprise all religions, and I mean ALL of them, eventually resort to violence and coercition: their very nature reverberates with the human drive to impose one's will to others (think Freudian sadism mixed with Darwinian struggle for life). All in the name of God of course...
And here's a clue about it.
I still find the notion of 'free will' to be not all that exacting. It is logical that the way that we react to any given situation is a result of all of our prior experiences and dna/genes. And yet, and any given moment, cannot our consciousness override our prior experiences and/or dan/genes. Perhaps our consciousness represents our 'free will'?
I may not have fully understood your point Anijo but apparently your questioning is: isn't there a moment when, ultimately, at the very beginning of the long chain that has preceded us and of which we are a by-product, we are faced with our deepest and most innate nature, the one we arrive on earth with.
Well, for a start there are our dan/genes which are responsible for you to be a she and me a he which entails that not only our feelings but also our ways of reasoning are dependant on our genre, who can seriously challenge this point?
Secondly, what you are is beyond any explanation. Some people are born to be good ones, some others to be not so good and some others to be definitive bastards. C'est un mystère.
Some people are born to be bright smart and intelligent, some others will turn out to be genius and/or artists of a size which simply doesn't compare to the world of dwarfs they live in, but these are other determinations that have been in the waiting since the beginning of humanity and even life.
Think of any figure you consider to be the epitome of what you admire the most. Said person had parents who certainly didn't plan to give birth to a bright mind whose grand-parents had great-great-great grand-parents who themselves etc. have nothing to do with what happened at the 200th generation after them and yet the oak was contained in the acorn (the image is from Hegel).
How responsible are genius of their specificity? Did they chose at any given second of their childhood that they'd become Johann S. Bach or W. Faulkner?
Ancient Greeks thought that geniuses were specifically singled out by the gods because they couldn't find any other explanation.
To make a long story short, even what we are which makes us different from all others is beyond any explanation. C'est comme ça, some are born to develop their intelligence, some others will always be irrecoverable imbeciles. Ain't life unkind?
The genius is no more responsible for the light he brings to humanity than the sinpleton is for the darkness he lives in
Free will is a fiction some people need to believe in because they need to believe rather than understand.
Which brings us back to an author I already mentioned, the one who suggested life in the end is just a system of necessary beliefs and fictions. Remember this?
It may be suggested that the reason why Harry is brighter than Jonathan is because Harry's brain is more and better wired that that of Jonathan's.
Well, ok, why not after all? But is Harry resonsible for his brain to be used at 2% of its potential while we mortal humans can only employ 0,2% ot it? When did Hary make the decision to step on the gas and how did he do that?
Oh and I need to correct what Ezra Pound writes.
I disagree that a slave is s.o who's waiting for s.o to come and free h. because a true slave is typically unaware he's a slave and doesn't want to change or be helped to change his status.
Now I agree that one who waits for s.o to come and free h. is still a slave even if h.'s conscious of his situation.
But there are at least another distinction to be made: that between the legal status of the slave and h. mental condition.
Pound refers to the mental acceptance of one's status of slave otherwise his statement is plain insulting and provocative to the Blacks of XIXth century America who'd still be slaves hadn't their masters been forced to free them.
To a certain extent we're currently slaves of the media and the political system which forces us to chose between the devil and the deep blue sea to the ultimate benefit of the politicians.
Le libre arbitre s'exerce dans la prison où nous sommes enfermés, souvent de notre propre chef.
"L'esclave prend le fouet des mains de son maître, et se fustige lui-même jusqu'à devenir son propre maître."
Il y a eu du bouleversement ici pendant mon absence, à ce que je vois.
Chacun dans sa cage en effet, dans laquelle la plupart se croient libres parce que comme l'oiseau, il peuvent "librement" sauter d'un barreau à l'autre. Belle liberté en effet...
Mais à tout prendre, pourraient-ils supporter de comprendre qu'ils sont prisonniers? Nous revoilà devant la grotte de Platon.
Je ne sais de qui est la citation que tu as déjà mentionnée il y a longtemps.
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