tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-186849324750028115.post354157059323907346..comments2023-07-23T14:10:14.460+02:00Comments on Shall we talk?: On the (relative) immorality of forgivenessFloconhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02152293520895506516noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-186849324750028115.post-82504741236500387112013-02-24T12:13:15.712+01:002013-02-24T12:13:15.712+01:00re morality, which was the main issue of this post...re morality, which was the main issue of this post, you have three main points of view here about what makes an action moral (in the positive meaning of the word of course).<br /><br />- The intention (that is Kant)<br />- The consequence (Mill's utilitarism)<br />- Excellency (ancient Romans and Greeks who held that trying one's best in every circumstance was the ultimate guarantee that Floconhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02152293520895506516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-186849324750028115.post-59410242400859072182013-02-24T11:27:56.589+01:002013-02-24T11:27:56.589+01:00Semperfi hasn't paid a visit for days now and ...Semperfi hasn't paid a visit for days now and I doubt he's that much interested in pursuing an exchange where his beliefs are put at test and where his final "arguments" sum up to "God said so" or with insane quotes from the Bible.<br /><br />And I'm not really interested in reading lines from the Gospels or the ancient Testament as well...<br /><br />There was a Floconhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02152293520895506516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-186849324750028115.post-15582631630525443012013-02-24T02:29:05.220+01:002013-02-24T02:29:05.220+01:00Hmmmm... still wondering if SemperFi will return t...Hmmmm... still wondering if SemperFi will return to address this topic. I know that he has always had a desire to take the logic of this train of thought to its logical end.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-186849324750028115.post-75863525256482994442013-02-14T15:51:56.776+01:002013-02-14T15:51:56.776+01:00SemeprFi warned that it would take some time.
---...SemeprFi warned that it would take some time.<br /><br />-----------<br /><br /><i>we all do things that we would wish to be forgiven for, so it makes sense to likewise forgive others.</i><br /><br /><br />I don't remember something for which I'd be relieved to be "forgiven".<br /><br />The bad things I have done are too petty to require forgiveness. Elapsed time has done the Floconhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02152293520895506516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-186849324750028115.post-56096325246848810452013-02-14T03:56:57.598+01:002013-02-14T03:56:57.598+01:00Still waiting for SemperFi to offer up his thought...Still waiting for SemperFi to offer up his thoughtful response.<br /><br />In the meantime, I think that we all do things that we would wish to be forgiven for, so it makes sense to likewise forgive others.<br /><br />Alas, what is so tragic about the tale of Romeo and Juliet was the unwillingness of the two households to forgive one another.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-186849324750028115.post-85266998236987318612013-02-05T04:46:46.449+01:002013-02-05T04:46:46.449+01:00Flocon: Your thought-provoking post deserves a re...Flocon: Your thought-provoking post deserves a response in kind. I ask for your patience. I can't do it justice until later in the week.<br />SemperFidelisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-186849324750028115.post-49718338392670333932013-02-02T14:58:33.255+01:002013-02-02T14:58:33.255+01:00SemperFidelis,
I leave aside the religious aspect...SemperFidelis,<br /><br />I leave aside the religious aspect of your position re forgiveness.<br /><br /><i>"Since God requires it of us, ii is, ipso facto, good."</i><br /><br />In the Quran as well as in the Bible and all these holly books, there are thousands of orders by purported gods who call for massacre, tortures, killings, slaughtering, slicing throats, cutting hands, stoning Floconhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02152293520895506516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-186849324750028115.post-8428622120441867072013-01-29T20:01:59.912+01:002013-01-29T20:01:59.912+01:00Flocon, I wrote you an email. If you don't rec...Flocon, I wrote you an email. If you don't receive, let me know.<br /><br />A slight mistake in your explanation made me laugh(no offense)"the word exists only as long as there is a consciousness in which it can be recreated" In that formulation, some might say it is religious. :)Ned Luddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00599196155953996432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-186849324750028115.post-14725154233196266662013-01-29T18:49:13.602+01:002013-01-29T18:49:13.602+01:00Ned,
Cela ne m'a pas échappé et je pensais le...Ned,<br /><br />Cela ne m'a pas échappé et je pensais le relever and then I thought that would appear too overtly flattering (there exists another word for what I mean but it currently escapes me) and a wity woman such as you wouldn't have missed the opportunity to make fun of me...<br /><br />------<br />You have now gathered enough brownie points to have your pic posted on Wikipedia (Floconhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02152293520895506516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-186849324750028115.post-17922988799551486762013-01-29T17:34:26.117+01:002013-01-29T17:34:26.117+01:00Flocon, at least you can see that besides reading ...Flocon, at least you can see that besides reading you, I read your links. How many brownie points does that get me?Ned Luddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00599196155953996432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-186849324750028115.post-82812088305933942742013-01-29T11:12:28.595+01:002013-01-29T11:12:28.595+01:00Ned,
The problem with Kant's Categorical impe...Ned,<br /><br />The problem with Kant's Categorical imperative is that it inevitably leads to contradictions and absurdities so it is hardly defensible in the end.<br /><br />You remember how philosophers' system must be understood with regard to their historical background. Kant epitomizes the period known as Enlightenment (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Answering_the_Question:Floconhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02152293520895506516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-186849324750028115.post-53668668518907442172013-01-28T15:33:36.574+01:002013-01-28T15:33:36.574+01:00Flocon, in your first link to Kant, he talks about...Flocon, in your first link to Kant, he talks about suicide, <br /><br />"A man reduced to despair by a series of misfortunes feels sick of life, but is still so far in possession of his reason that he can ask himself whether taking his own life would not be contrary to his duty to himself. Now he asks whether the maxim of his action could become a universal law of nature. But his maxim is Ned Luddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00599196155953996432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-186849324750028115.post-1465795806832369772013-01-28T04:41:07.001+01:002013-01-28T04:41:07.001+01:00For the Christian believer, forgiveness of others ...For the Christian believer, forgiveness of others is a duty owed to God. Since God requires it of us, ii is, ipso facto, good.<br /><br />Secular forgiveness is empty of any ethical value other than that of utility. Your quotation at the beginning of the post sums it up accurately. Forgiveness is something we do wholly for ourselves. We do it for us because, and only because, it benefits us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-186849324750028115.post-11254200561212900032013-01-27T01:38:54.367+01:002013-01-27T01:38:54.367+01:00Ned,
I had written an answer to your last comment...Ned,<br /><br />I had written an answer to your last comment and apparently it has vanished in the haze.<br /><br />Chuis fatigué, je vais me coucher et j'y reviens plus tard...Floconhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02152293520895506516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-186849324750028115.post-6881341246298091402013-01-26T20:01:58.489+01:002013-01-26T20:01:58.489+01:00Flocon, I highly recommend that you watch(rent)tho...Flocon, I highly recommend that you watch(rent)those two films, both of which have to do with remembering, forgetting, and (not)forgiving in a personal sense, not a religious one.<br /><br />In a sense, the (non)forgivers are right and the object of their anger is guilty, but perhaps not entirely wrong. It applies perhaps to your new post.<br /><br />I agree with you about American screen writersNed Luddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00599196155953996432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-186849324750028115.post-1080392953306921802013-01-26T17:54:35.006+01:002013-01-26T17:54:35.006+01:00Ned,
Forgive me (although it may be immoral) for ...Ned,<br /><br />Forgive me (although it may be immoral) for being late to write this post... Je m'y mets asap.<br /><br />I haven't seen any of the films you mention but it reminds how good are American script writers when it comes to address serious issues that make people think.<br /><br />Of the three types of forgiveness you enunciate, each tackles very different situations. The Floconhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02152293520895506516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-186849324750028115.post-76827456052685525672013-01-26T14:20:58.440+01:002013-01-26T14:20:58.440+01:00There are at least three types of forgiveness: rel...There are at least three types of forgiveness: religious, that which you give to friends and vice versa for things you have done wrong to each other, and self-forgiveness.<br /><br />The latter two are necessary for your social interaction and for your sanity respectively.<br /><br />Religious forgiveness is bad. You are asked to forgive unforgivable things like murder of someone close. I might Ned Luddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00599196155953996432noreply@blogger.com